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J2 History request

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Topic URL: https://www.triple-mregister.org/forums//topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5226
Printed on: 03/07/2024

Topic:

Topic author: OJAI J2
Subject: J2 History request
Posted on: 18/02/2012 21:16:42
Message:

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to this site, but I've spent the last few days reading through you posts and I am finding it tremendously interesting and informative!

I'm sure one of you can help me, I'm seeking info on a J2 I purchased on ebay about a year ago. I'm finally starting to work on it, but there seems to be a issue with the numbers...

The chassis plate is stamped J2 943, Engine No. 1703A but the front chassis rail is stamped J2 2934. The transmission is stamped 1212/72 and 8/14.

Under the dash is 926. It has an original UK license plate mounted to the front: OC 3572.

Any information on this car would be greatly appreciated! I've started to rewire the car this weekend with a new cloth harness. However I seem to have far more wires than my car needs and the Blower manual wiring diagrams are a little limited...

Also is this a 1932 or a 1933? It has cycle wings and it's colour is BRG but I believe it may have been black originally.

Looking forward to reading your responses!

Replies:

Reply author: DickMorbey
Replied on: 18/02/2012 22:02:32
Message:

Hello Sean and welcome to the Register website.

According to the published Register J2943 is/was resident in the USA from 1986 and the owner was one Solomon J Samuels. The UK registration number of the car was LJ 7574. The car was said to have been for sale in November, 2006.

J2934 is listed as owned by Paul Knowles (in the UK,I think) and has UK registration number JW 3578

That the front chassis stamping (which is usually regarded as the definitive identity of the car) should differ so closely from the brass plate is odd. It might point to one of the following:

1. The chassis stamping was usually entrusted to an apprentice at the works. Maybe he was dyslexic?
2. The brass plate is a modern re-creation?
3. Maybe the car has been assembled from components from two cars?
4. Some other reason?

Our Registrar Robin Hamblett has voluminous records of most Triple-M cars over and beyond what appears in the published Register and he may be able to add a comment - either here or by a separate message to you. I am sure he'd like to hear from you anyway - unless you'vce already registered your ownership with him?

In the meantime do you have any close up pictures of the chassis stamping and the brass plate?

You don't say what condition your car is in or what other attentiopn it needs but I am sure you'll get any amount of help and advice here!

Dick Morbey
PA/PB 0743
Henley-on-Thames, Oxon, UK

Reply author: PeterL
Replied on: 18/02/2012 23:30:20
Message:

My immediate advice is to get a copy of the chassis file for the number on your dumb iron which is your actual chassis number. email John Inness at club HQ, his address is on this site, he deals with these things. Usually about Ł20

The chassis file might tell you the original engine number (which appears on the block and the front housing), the dynamo and starter numbers, the gearbox number and gives you a pretty good indication of how much of your car is original, might even give you the body number too. It will also tell you when your car was built and sold and the name of the first owner and maybe more...

Look on the bonnet hinge (forward and offside) and you will see the chassis number and colour stamped there of the car to which the bonnet originally belonged... I am not sure, I think black is BK and blue is B.

And congrats, lovely little cars, J2s.

Cheers

Peter (J2 and F3)

Reply author: OJAI J2
Replied on: 19/02/2012 06:48:31
Message:

Thank you Nick, for the wiring info! Greatly appreciated...

I've attached some images of the chassis plate and stamped numbers on the car. It appears that it possibly has a bonnet from another car, so maybe suffered an accident in an earlier life, but I can see no evidence of accident damage to the chassis (maybe lost it's bonnet in storage? etc.) Again, I look forward to any information.

The car was complete and almost running when purchased and has a nice lived in patina.

Photo 1: Chassis Plate
Photo 2: Dumb Iron
Photo 3: Front Transmission
Photo 4: Rear Transmission
Photo 5: Wooden frame member behind dash
Photo 6: Bonnet Hinge

Reply author: Eric Taylor
Replied on: 19/02/2012 10:51:29
Message:

Hmm, that's interesting. Bonnet no. 3112 BK.

Must be the original bonnet off my J2 XJ 6813, J 3112!

Regards, Eric Taylor.

Reply author: Simon
Replied on: 19/02/2012 12:49:09
Message:

What an intriguing mystery, According to the register J 2934 should have engine No. 1703 AJ so the 2943 must have been wrongly stamped originally? I saw J 2943(LJ 7974) at Biggin Hill Air Show in June 2009. Simon.

Reply author: Oz34
Replied on: 19/02/2012 14:32:38
Message:

Perhaps Sean, as with stamps that are incorrectly printed, you have something valuable there?

On a different aspect, as no one else has commented, the 8/14 on the gearbox is the speedo drive ratio; the driving gear being 8 teeth & the driven 14.

926 should be the body number & certainly the similar number on my P matches that on the body plate if you still have it; I think on Js it was on the front right hand face of the cockpit heelboard?

Welcome & good luck,

Dave

Reply author: LewPalmer
Replied on: 19/02/2012 17:10:38
Message:

Seems simple to me. Other than a bonnet from a different car, the only mismatch is on the guarantee plate. Quite simply, that isn't to be trusted regardless, as it is easily replaced. Chances are, it is a modern replacement and was replaced by someone with a little dislexia. The registration plate is also easily replaced, although a check with Swansea should reveal its correct number. Neither of the numbers JW3758 nor OC3572 are showing up as valid in my queries.
Maybe it is Dick Morbey with the dislexia, as if he rereads the Register listing, he will find the registration for J2934 is JW3758, not JW3578. <grin>

Lew Palmer
Registrar, NAMMMR

Reply author: John M
Replied on: 19/02/2012 18:02:39
Message:

My guess is the guarantee plate is a replacement that was incorrectly stamped. The limited number of factory guarantee plates I've seen have a "J" or "J2" stamped in a different, special font. There is a backward slash "/" either before or after the "/J XXXX" or "/J2/ XXXX". The chassis numbers are stamped neatly. Then the engine numbers usually appear hand stamped with a larger set of stamps from the chassis producing a slightly different font.

John M.

Reply author: Robin Hamblett
Replied on: 19/02/2012 18:05:09
Message:

Hi Sean, and all

This is quite simple:

J 2934 was originally registered with road plate OC 3572. My records show that is also wore number plate JW 3578 at some stage as well.

The chassis number is correct as J 2934, as Lew says, this is the gospel. The chassis ID plate you have does not look original to me, the numbers are too big and not the correct font. Whoever stamped it has the numbers in the incorrect order.

1703 AJ is the correct engine number for J 2934 also.

The bonnet is also from another car J 3112 which was indeed originally black (BK)

The car is on the register, number 1546 but I don't have you as the current owner Sean. Please can you contact me at robin.hamblett@gmail.com and I will send you an update form.

Many thanks

Robin Hamblett
MMM Registrar

J2 J3666

Reply author: Robin Hamblett
Replied on: 19/02/2012 18:07:37
Message:

Reply author: PeterL
Replied on: 19/02/2012 21:02:04
Message:

Hmmm

I wonder who has your original bonnet?

Cheers

P

Reply author: OJAI J2
Replied on: 20/02/2012 03:35:09
Message:

I would like to thank everyone for their comments and information, what a great resource this forum is! So I have Eric from France's bonnet! Do you have mine? If you do can I have it back please

A replacement chassis plate incorrectly stamped and shipped to the USA in the mid eighties, a member has some photos of it back in the UK sporting swept wings at one time maybe Eric's too

But on the whole I have a pretty original little car. Now hopefully some one has knowledge of trials or race history which would be wonderful.

I attached some images of rewiring the car today folded windshield is a great laptop shelf and brooklands screen the perfect book stand, now if I can just figure out this spaghetti junction.

Cheers all.

Sean.

Reply author: PeterL
Replied on: 20/02/2012 08:29:09
Message:

Another little snippit: 8/14 is the gear ratio for the speedo drive, 1212 is the gearbox serial number and 72 is the J identifier number.

The chassis file should tell you the original gearbox number. Maybe you have Eric's gearbox too...

Good luck with it all.

Cheers

P

Reply author: George Eagle
Replied on: 20/02/2012 10:08:11
Message:

Hi sean

I would also like to welcome you to the world on Triple-M motoring.

I note Robin has informed you that the Triple-M Register number for J2934 is 1546. I can supply you with a Triple-M Register badge engraved with this Register number - the order form is in the document download section of this web site.

I could'nt help but notice the motor bike in the background!

Best regards

George
L2023 and NA0960
Nr Buckingham, UK

Reply author: Colin Morse
Replied on: 20/02/2012 16:14:29
Message:

I have seen previous references to the gearbox number being quoted on the chassis file, but cannot see this listed on the file for my J2. What I have is a copy of an A4 size page with 30 entries, from 2331 to 2360. For each entry, there are five columns, headed Chassis, Engine, Issued (date),Signature and Remarks. Where is the gearbox number usualy recorded?
Regards
Colin Morse
J2332

Reply author: Simon Johnston
Replied on: 20/02/2012 16:45:56
Message:

Colin,

The gearbox number, as well as a variety of other numbers such as dynamo, starter and body were recorded on the dispatch card sent from the sales department to the service department. It also records body, trim and wheel colour and the name of the main agent to whom it was delivered and the date of delivery. I have a copy of this card for my car in addition to the ledger page you describe which gives the date the chassis set off down the production line. But perhaps the dispatch card for your car didn't survive.

Reply author: Colin Morse
Replied on: 20/02/2012 17:26:43
Message:

Thanks for the reply Simon. I also have a copy of a small slip headed:

To: SERVICE DEPARTMENT From: SALES DEPARTMENT

and this lists:

Chassis number
Type and Model
Colour
Delivered to
Date Delivered
Main Agent..................but no further information.

This is a typed slip, unlike the previous ledger which was handwritten in Indian Ink, complete with lots of blots and splodges!!
Colin

Reply author: Simon Johnston
Replied on: 20/02/2012 17:36:56
Message:

Colin,

Here's a picture of the card that was in my chassis file. Perhaps by the time my car, J3437, was built, in July 1933, they had improved their record keeping!

Reply author: Allan Bentley
Replied on: 22/02/2012 11:27:38
Message:

Hello,
The chassis stamps look very original to me the plate not. Have you looked for the chassis frame number? This is stamped on the front cross tube between the lugs of the steering box. I would like to know how this compares with the MG issued number on your chassis.
I am investigating an L1 which had its chassis number removed when re registered in Bristol in 1947,after the war. I have its frame number as 173. There are other 'confusing' clues that the car could be L0440.
Thanks in advance
Allan Bentley

quote:
Originally posted by OJAI J2

Thank you Nick, for the wiring info! Greatly appreciated...

I've attached some images of the chassis plate and stamped numbers on the car. It appears that it possibly has a bonnet from another car, so maybe suffered an accident in an earlier life, but I can see no evidence of accident damage to the chassis (maybe lost it's bonnet in storage? etc.) Again, I look forward to any information.

The car was complete and almost running when purchased and has a nice lived in patina.

Photo 1: Chassis Plate
Photo 2: Dumb Iron
Photo 3: Front Transmission
Photo 4: Rear Transmission
Photo 5: Wooden frame member behind dash
Photo 6: Bonnet Hinge

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