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PeterL
United Kingdom
1722 Posts |
 Posted - 16/01/2016 : 17:10:05
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The advice has to remain: talk to people who have the experience before trusting anyone!
I think we have all had good service as well as bad and if we can pass on the benefit of our experiences to others it has to be to the benefit of members and the club as a whole.
Glad you are still with us Chris.
KUGW.
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O.Thomas
United Kingdom
755 Posts |
Posted - 16/01/2016 : 17:31:49
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| As with all these things I'm sure there is another side to the story!!!!! |
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Terry Hartley
United Kingdom
279 Posts |
Posted - 16/01/2016 : 21:16:20
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Chris
Is that what this has all been about? It seems a bit of a OTT dramatic reaction to something most of us have experienced at some time or other. As Simon says, the Register and Forum rules are clearly published for all to see. What one club decides to do does not necessarily mean all others must take the same view and I think it's a bit naive to expect otherwise.
Regarding deregistering, I agree with Onno, what exactly do you mean? I thought it was the history of our cars that are 'registered' and all we do here is subscribe to the forum and participation in this is completely optional. There are a couple of small things that I don't quite agree with on the forum rules but it is a democracy and the plusses far, far outweigh my odd contradicting view. Your postings have been of interest to many, Chris, and I'm sure they will be missed by many readers, but I am equally sure that you will miss out on a lot of advice and knowledge that will help you in the restoration and future enjoyment of your J2s if you take your bat and ball home.
Please rethink Chris, and develop a tougher skin 
Terry |
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John Mee
United Kingdom
209 Posts |
Posted - 17/01/2016 : 00:35:01
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Chris. Glad you are still on the forum, your input would be sadly missed.
John.
John Mee |
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Peter Hall
United Kingdom
33 Posts |
Posted - 17/01/2016 : 10:34:18
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Chris,
I am one of those who have been "registered" for a number of years but watch from the side lines.
I first registered myself in 1982, when I brought my J2, however if you research my profile is shows me as registering in 2013. It was in 2013 when I finally logged on to the register via computer. I had read the forum prior to this, but as I was getting closer to the completion of the re-build felt in a position to take part.
So I am one of those who are a member, but a normally silent one, watching and learning.
Peter
J4258 |
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Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1487 Posts |
Posted - 17/01/2016 : 11:22:50
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To Terry Hartley, Well said Terry. I agree with everything you say.
Colin B.
(Southwick, West Sussex and MGCC Member since 1956) |
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MG Maverick
United Kingdom
1045 Posts |
Posted - 17/01/2016 : 12:36:16
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As a relative newcomer to the MMM fraternity and the forum in particular I really appreciate your posts which have convinced me to remain as a watcher, contributor and interact with the various subject matter.
All I asked was ' How does one deregister ', had there been a simple press of a button reply then I would have silently gone away, I had already cancelled my MGCC membership, this I will reverse tomorrow.
There has been some over reaction on my part and for this I apologise, I have always championed a ' name and shame ' approach to companies / individuals who look at our affliction as a method of income but not providing the services or products as advertised.
Perhaps one can appreciate when I explain what happened to an elderly gentleman I had assisted recently, he became one of a number of victims of the errant Restoration Company who had now been closed down by Trading Standards. The company was closed with debts and all lost their deposits and stage payments. The company phoenixed and continued to trade.
The elderly gentleman wanted his Rover P5B restored to as new, so that he could enjoy the car for the rest of his days. He paid £42,000 in total in staged payments, falling for the sales pitch. He came to my office through a car club, he broke down, with the realisation that he had been cheated. The restorer wanted more money. When he refused, the restorer dumped his project. This is what £42,000 gave him. The engine & other parts are still with unpaid sub contractors. The is the worst of the cases, I am working to get the others sorted.
Chris ( J2353 ) & ( J4129 )
Brighton, East Sussex & Paphos, Cyprus. |
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Bob Clare
United Kingdom
278 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2016 : 00:31:12
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Chris,
What a very sad story! I can sympathise with your P5B owning acquaintance. I also had one of these fine cars and wish I still had. I would encourage all folk who are members of car clubs to share experiences of this sort whilst, as you so wisely have, involving the relevant enforcement authorities thus avoiding private actions against folk blowing the whistle. That avoidance tactic is equally or more important for the Club and thus the Register.
That’s a separate issue surely from your wishing to know how to “de-register”. The Triple-M Register is a list of surviving cars not owners, though the latter are recorded for posterity unless they specifically request not to be. Certainly when I was Registrar there were a number of owners who asked not to be identified in the published Register list. We always complied with such requests. The Register still listed the car as a survivor however. Serious disagreements between the Register and owners were and I hope still are, rare. I did have one owner who threatened to take a welding torch to his car, so upset was he. Fortunately he relented as have you for which I add my name to the list of those relieved to hear it.
Bob Clare
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MG Maverick
United Kingdom
1045 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2016 : 07:35:04
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Hello Bob, Thankyou for sharing your knowledge and experience. I am sometimes too passionate about my ' affliction ' and I will always champion enthusiasts causes, especially with rogue traders & suppliers, who use us for their personal financial gain.
I personally will always attempt at preventing us from being used/abused in this way and will continue until I get thrown off, succeed to get a ' bucket list ' or leave...or maybe all three.
I challenged the less than ( in my view ) responsible approach to N & S by total censorship in my other marque club pointing out that any criticism which includes a clear statement that's in the writers opinion etc etc avoids any risk of legal action, that the opinions expressed are those of the author and not necessarily the club.
I am still here, I have said my piece and I have aired my feelings which have not gone unnoticed. Best Regards and thanks, Chris 
Chris ( J2353 ) & ( J4129 )
Brighton, East Sussex & Paphos, Cyprus. |
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Npdavea
United Kingdom
272 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2016 : 19:46:48
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Chris,
I hope you won't de-register and I am sure that my very old friend David Venables would not have either. We met on an Italian holiday years ago when our young children were the same ages and both families shared a lot together subsequently and I especially enjoyed his company and his massive knowledge of and enthusiasm for all things to do with Classic Cars. We miss him too.
Best regards
D P Allen |
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KR200
United Kingdom
54 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2016 : 09:08:05
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quote:
Originally posted by MG Maverick
As a relative newcomer to the MMM fraternity and the forum in particular I really appreciate your posts which have convinced me to remain as a watcher, contributor and interact with the various subject matter.
All I asked was ' How does one deregister ', had there been a simple press of a button reply then I would have silently gone away, I had already cancelled my MGCC membership, this I will reverse tomorrow.
There has been some over reaction on my part and for this I apologise, I have always championed a ' name and shame ' approach to companies / individuals who look at our affliction as a method of income but not providing the services or products as advertised.
Perhaps one can appreciate when I explain what happened to an elderly gentleman I had assisted recently, he became one of a number of victims of the errant Restoration Company who had now been closed down by Trading Standards. The company was closed with debts and all lost their deposits and stage payments. The company phoenixed and continued to trade.
The elderly gentleman wanted his Rover P5B restored to as new, so that he could enjoy the car for the rest of his days. He paid £42,000 in total in staged payments, falling for the sales pitch. He came to my office through a car club, he broke down, with the realisation that he had been cheated. The restorer wanted more money. When he refused, the restorer dumped his project. This is what £42,000 gave him. The engine & other parts are still with unpaid sub contractors. The is the worst of the cases, I am working to get the others sorted.
Chris ( J2353 ) & ( J4129 )
Brighton, East Sussex & Paphos, Cyprus.
Bloody hell. 42k into that.
To use traditional parlance, "poor old sod". I do hope you can somehow get some money back for the owner. I fear most will be salted away and squandered. It sounds like some vile nigerian scam where the lonely widow keeps on pumping money into a black hole.
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Edited by - KR200 on 23/01/2016 09:08:49 |
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MG Maverick
United Kingdom
1045 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2016 : 09:50:42
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This has caused the owner to be severely depressed and I was concearned for his well being. The Restoration Company had limited liabilities and zero assets, all that we could achieve was to close him down and disbarred as a Company Director for 5 years.
The attached is another enthusiasts dream shattered, he has paid £7000. He lives in Germany and I successfully reunited the owner with his P5B, and a removed wing which I suspect was to be used on another project. A STRONG WARNING TO BE CAREFUL AND DO YOUR HOMEWORK, ALWAYS GET RECOMMENDATIONS AND DO NOT PAY UP FRONT, this was the modus operandi of this company and how they were able to rack up the large stage payments. I am still involved with three more owners and their projects, one living in Bulgaria with a spend of £25,000 and an unfinished project ( £12,000 would buy a very decent car ).
Chris ( J2353 ) & ( J4129 )
Brighton, East Sussex & Paphos, Cyprus. |
Edited by - MG Maverick on 23/01/2016 10:00:35 |
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KR200
United Kingdom
54 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2016 : 13:45:48
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quote:
Originally posted by MG Maverick
This has caused the owner to be severely depressed and I was concearned for his well being. The Restoration Company had limited liabilities and zero assets, all that we could achieve was to close him down and disbarred as a Company Director for 5 years.
The attached is another enthusiasts dream shattered, he has paid £7000. He lives in Germany and I successfully reunited the owner with his P5B, and a removed wing which I suspect was to be used on another project. A STRONG WARNING TO BE CAREFUL AND DO YOUR HOMEWORK, ALWAYS GET RECOMMENDATIONS AND DO NOT PAY UP FRONT, this was the modus operandi of this company and how they were able to rack up the large stage payments. I am still involved with three more owners and their projects, one living in Bulgaria with a spend of £25,000 and an unfinished project ( £12,000 would buy a very decent car ).
Chris ( J2353 ) & ( J4129 )
Brighton, East Sussex & Paphos, Cyprus.
That is soul destroying.
What makes it worse is these old things are ones hobby and passion. You work hard to amass the funds to treat yourself to a toy. Or you've had it for donkeys years and it's part of the family.
You entrust them to people who profess to know what they're doing and talk a good game and then they utterly stiff you.
I can see why you're so angered by traders who take you for a ride. When you're right in the thick of it dispute wise. These scumbags go bust owing thousands in the name of the Ltd company and then invariably do it all again taking a new batch of blokes to the cleaners.
Why though would you pay say 20k to have a car worth 10k restored?! My mantra is buy the best you can afford and avoid the junk. If it needs masses of work sell it as a project and go and get another better example.
I like a bit of fettling but total rebuilds or big welding/structural work is not for me. Was once but not now!
Anyway it's good you're back on and posting.
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JMH
United Kingdom
911 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2016 : 10:09:32
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"Why though would you pay say 20k to have a car worth 10k restored?! My mantra is buy the best you can afford and avoid the junk. If it needs masses of work sell it as a project and go and get another better example".
Very often it is because it's a car which has been owned for many years and holds a shed load of happy/precious memories for the owner. In these circumstances it's not about how much car for the money; it's because of what the car actually represents. For some, it really isn't about the money, until of course some low-life betrays your trust & rips you off.
JH
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Edited by - JMH on 24/01/2016 10:10:38 |
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MG Maverick
United Kingdom
1045 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2016 : 11:51:23
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In the two cases I have highlighted, both have some historic attachment to their projects and the person running the company was aware. The elderly gentleman had used his Rover since the 1970s as his daily driver, inevitably some restorative work was due and he thought that spending the money ( that he would have spent on buying a new . modern car )would give him back the car that he loved, that he could enjoy for the rest of his driving days.
The German owner of the white P5B just wanted the car that had been his fathers restored, he has said that it brings him close to his father who died suddenly Although he has sacrificed £7000, it hadn't gone as far as the first owners spend. There is a third I have been assisting recently. The owner lives in Bulgaria, similar to the German chap, this owner is English and the car belongs to his father, he wanted to present the car back to him for his 90th birthday, but upon my advice and assistance has sold the car for parts as unroadworthy..the spend was £25,000. The three projects were not about the money or the final value, but returning something to its original condition to those it mattered most to.
I have two more abandoned projects to find the owners of, the restoration man has run leaving the mess at the industrial premises, if I cannot find the owners then the landlord will no doubt scrap them. I have met in person all three enthusiasts, all are good , decent folk . Three enthusiasts dreams shattered, its not always just about the money.
Chris ( J2353 ) & ( J4129 )
Brighton, East Sussex & Paphos, Cyprus. |
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