| Author |
 Topic  |
|
treetops
Netherlands
284 Posts |
 Posted - 02/02/2008 : 15:02:57
|
| Does anybody have any idea which shade of blue was used on works racing car engines? Thanks in advance. J. |
|
|
Peter Green
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2008 : 17:22:27
|
The modern colour that is now used on K3 type engines is Mercedes China Blue. I am note sure if that is suitable for all models.
Peter. |
 |
|
|
MaGic_GV
United Kingdom
868 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2008 : 18:50:02
|
On the topic of engine colour, my PA's engine was a pale green colour when I bought it (in the late sixties). I understand that this was used for saloons (4-seat tourers too??) and recon. engines. Alas by the time I discovered this the engine had been rebuilt and was repainted red. The engine is now on my workbench and my query is - should I stick with red or go back to the historically correct (for my car)green? And will I have hoards of people telling me that it should, of course, be red? The dynamo, oil pump and starter motor were all painted black, whereas on many cars these days these components are red too - which is correct?
For what its worth, my bits will probably remain the colour they are already, but I would be interested to hear the opinions of others.
Graham
|
|
|
|
sven
Sweden
436 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 09:01:44
|
This is an intersting topic which I think is a typical one where somebody thinks he (or she) knows the answer to a question and that truth is then repeated many times over till everybody believes in it wtihout checking the origins.
I think Mike Allison had an essay on this in a MMM bulletin a while ago. No doubt somebody will find it. My memory is that this patricular truth about engines being different colours for different applications is not true.
David A I await your knowledge.
Sven |
|
|
|
tonym
United Kingdom
654 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 16:13:53
|
Peg leg Pete - Sorry, Mike, did an article on engine colours in Safety Fast - June 1999 page 20
There was another article on MMM colours in S/F in June 1990 p33- but this did not mention engine colours
Tony M |
|
|
|
LewPalmer
USA
3248 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 20:23:59
|
A few years ago, I did a survey on engine colors (sorry, colours). The results were somewhat surprising. 55% of the respondents with either 2 or 4 seaters indicated that they had the original engine and the lowest level color was green. 40% said red. 5% said something else. In EVERY case where the response was blue, the engine was a bespoke unit - not necessarily just a racing engine.
Lew Palmer
Registrar, NAMMMR |
|
|
|
David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 09:44:55
|
Not this old chesnut again!
Dad worked with Jacko and Sid Enever in the 60's who told him that the race engines were seldom painted - "we didnt have time"!
The engine of the NA has (we are sort of certain) been dark red since Dad rebuilt the engine for the first time in 1962.
The engine at that time he bought the car was dark blue and when Dad removed all the paint he found a multitude of colours of which the final two were dark red and then red oxide primer.
I spoke to a number of people years ago (Henry Stone one of them)and they all said it depended on the car.
The blue used by some engine builders was definately quite popular, as was the dark red which Dad always uses.
Green was used and so was black.
At the time I think you could choose!
The guys who can definately remember are all long gone - and when they were alive, did not really care about such trivialities.
The best advice I can give is to paint the car any colour you like and match the ancillaries to suit the colour scheme.
The blue used by some people now is very light in colour and I am not sure if it was available with such a high lustre in such a light shade pre-war.
The red used by Dad is Monza Red (RAL 3004) - but we also used Black and Dark Blue (RAL 5002) on other engines when Red did not suit the colour scheme of the car.
I personally like the light blue - but it does not look so good on my car because there is already so much light blue there and I think red breaks it up a bit.
The show car engines were sometimes painted a vivid yellow or white.
This was purely to make them stand out from the associated crowd.
The racers engines were probably painted in red oxide for "works" entries - unless the customer specified a colour and paid extra.
The green colour was certainly popular - probably because the most common car colours were green and black and this suited the scheme.
Sorry we cant be more help treetops - the answer to the question you ask is "we dont know".
Peter gives a colour which looks very nice (RAL 5024 I think it is) and a reference to identify it if my colour chip is wrong.
Sorry we cant be more help.
Regards David |
|
|
|
treetops
Netherlands
284 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 18:06:26
|
| I am sure that this topic has been covered before, however I need a reference for my supercharged (blue) J engine. I have at least got a few references. Many thanks for all your comments. I certainly appreciate the effort you all made to answer my question |
|
|
|
sam christie
United Kingdom
3114 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2008 : 18:52:23
|
I have just been in touch with Mike Lowndes whose 1929 M-type has only recently had its first restoration. When the engine was cleaned up and the layers of paint on the surface of the otherwise hard to reach areas of the flywheel housing examined the very first coat was grey followed by green. This is exactly the combination which I have seen on two others which had not been rebuilt in 50 years. The combination of grey (primer undercoat?) followed by green seems more than coincidence.
Sam |
|
|
|
talbot
United Kingdom
718 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2008 : 19:14:21
|
I've just painted my bell housing with two pack primer and the entire coat has peeled off just like a snake shedding its skin. I suspect the instant gasket that I have been using is to blame- it is silicone based. What's the best type of paint to use- that's once the correct colour has been resolved.
Let's hope the weather is good for Stoneleigh - I buy my lunch from the burger bar that's in the outdoor section.
Jan T |
|
|
|
David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 13/02/2008 : 12:31:52
|
Jan
My guess is that the housing was not clean enough for the paint to key on to the metal.
This might be caused by a number of things - instant gasket is one cause - WD40 is a more common one.
WD 40 is a very high silicone content and soaks into the metal.
This causes the paint to pickle and come off very easily.
Also 2 pack paints require a primer and it is better if the paint is baked after finishing to harden the paint fully.
I prefer to use oil base or cellulose base paint for chassis and engine components.
Pre-war cars have such a habit of leaking oil and old castings are particularly good at holding this deep in the metal - that oil based paints are best suited and less likely to give trouble.
I use Hammerite smooth finish gloss black on the chassis and axles.
Palanail oil based brushing enamel on the engine block.
At work we use a range of paint finishes - powder coating being the most effective - however this requires a very good surface key (often needing shot blasting).
You pays yer money and takes yer choice!
2 pack is great and gives a great finish - but requires a good deal of surface treatment and a very clean object before painting.
The bare metal should be primed (often needs an etch primer too).
I am informed by the company that does our industrial paint finishing work that oven baking is also desiable.
Talk to the paint supplier see if he has an idea what happened.
Hope this helps
Regards David |
|
|
|
Terry Andrews
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - 13/02/2008 : 20:05:26
|
A few years ago I gave a demonstration on had painting techniques at the European Workshop held in Belgium.
You will need the item very clean. (I fettle out the casting joint lines and grinding marks but keep any lettering but this may be too OTT for some!) I then use Hammerite undercoat one or two coats depending on the state of the metal. I leave this for at least a week and then I rub down with 250 wet and dry.
For colour I use JAPLACK available from B&Q etc. I find a container larger than the tin of Japlack. I open the tin and stir and then I pour boiling water in the container so that it warms up the paint tin and continue to stir. The paint goes very thin. At this point I pour away the cooling water and pour in fresh boiling water. I then use a very soft brush and paint the item as quick as possible. The paint flows well and leave a high gloss with no brush marks.
I have used this paint on chassis, gear boxes and engines and it withstands the heat of engines oil and petrol with on problems. The Burgundy is spot on for XPAG engines but is too red for TripleûM ones, so I mix a little brown and black to achieve the correct colour. Try it!
|
|
|
|
Bob Hudson
United Kingdom
67 Posts |
Posted - 13/02/2008 : 21:01:04
|
I don't know what is the correct blue for MMM racing engines!!!
But I have always used Rylard marine finishes(Plus enamel and undercoat) to paint all the parts of my C type. It is very easy to use, gives a superb finish and resists every thing the car throws at it. It is available from Indestructible Paint, 25 Pentos Drive, Sparkhill, Birmingham B11 3TA, 0121 778 4338. e-mail, sales@ indestructible.co.uk. and www.indestructible.oc.uk There are local stockists.
|
|
|
|
John Reid
United Kingdom
705 Posts |
Posted - 14/02/2008 : 00:25:22
|
I too can thoroughly recommend the Rylard range of marine enamels. I found out about the company from reading Wheatley and Morgan's book on "The Restoration of Vintage and Thoroughbred Cars" - still a good read today, 50 years later, on how to do the job properly.
Then the company was called Llewelyn Ryland Ltd, but is now part of Indestructible Paint as Bob says. I brush painted two J2s using Rylard products wih pleasing results.
John R |
|
|
|
davies
United Kingdom
699 Posts |
Posted - 14/02/2008 : 10:00:16
|
| I too have had excellent results using RYLARD paints from Indestructible paint Co. P.S Beware using Hammerite where it is likely to come into contact with unleaded petrol, It dissapears. Regards Rich |
|
|
|
morisani
Italy
109 Posts |
Posted - 14/07/2008 : 17:27:30
|
Hi friends,
I red trough the answers on the subject but I didn't catch the right one. On my PA 1121 the lower part of the engine is dark green, the upper part red with alluminium top. I checked "the MG collection, pre-war models"; in it there is a PA engine image and the engine part under the alluminum top is all red and so are quite all the other prewar engines. I'm now going to reassemble the upper part and I think I'll keep it red as it is, but any advice will be much appreciated, thanks
Francesco (Rome) |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Forum Locked
Topic Locked
