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PeterL
United Kingdom
1729 Posts |
 Posted - 13/11/2021 : 23:30:45
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I often get approached by people whose parents had a MMM MG, sometimes they can remember it from their childhood. I always offer to put them in touch with the current owner and collect any info that they may still have on the car.
It would be a tragedy to have to tell someone that their parents' car had just been scrapped.
These cars carry their owners' social history which is why original cars have that extra quality of authenticity as you know "they" sat in that seat and had "their" hands on that steering wheel.
When it comes to it, though, the owner owns it and can do with it as he will. It is just a bit of a shame if he does not respect the responsibility that ownership brings.
I can understand that traders and dealers are in the business for the money and are less sentimental. Perhaps they sit uncomfortably within the constraints of a club.
Peter L |
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Richard Hardy
United Kingdom
2165 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2021 : 14:25:40
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I suspect it is distressing to read to many enthusiasts of any car being broken up.
It is so sad that even in modern times, second hand parts traders can possibly possess limited conscience in embarking on breaking up complete cars to then re-offer the parts for sale. Why not simply first offer the whole car for sale as a restoration project.
I am aware of an N type which not so many years ago was purchased from a deceased estate and on the proviso it would not be broken up for spares. This is immediately what happened yet there was at least one purchaser who wished to restore the entity as it was.
Several MMM cars over the past 5 or so years, that I know of , have been ravaged to provide parts for the shelf, simply as a commercial exercise.
The VSCC a couple of years back introduced new rules to ban the left over chassis from being eligible for club membership. These chassis are effectively black listed if reported.
If however a whole car is too far gone to be rebuilt, then I suppose the proposal to strip a vehicle down can be excused but then it may be argued that most of the parts would be too far gone to have meaningful re-use and resale value. Is there not a market for this car before it is broken up Barry?
It is to be hoped that anyone stripping a car right down simply to offer the parts for sale has good reason other than to simply profiteer from the exercise, otherwise it is more of an exercise of ‘robbing Peter to pay Paul’ , i.e. leaving the recipient of the bare chassis to rely on someone else breaking another car to rebuild a car from a bare chassis.
Is it possible for club members to see a reasonably priced restoration project being offered before a car is effectively all but redistributed through a process of last resort?
Rich
Vintage MG Parts |
Edited by - Richard Hardy on 13/11/2021 14:29:08 |
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Barry Walker
United Kingdom
232 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2021 : 18:52:01
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I've sold 976 MMM cars over my lifetime with MGs:, I've helped thousands and thousands of people get their MMM car on the road.
I've broken 9 cars in 51 years; I don't need lecturing to by anybody as to whether a car should be broken or not.
Sorry to all those people who have already ordered bits today, you WILL of course get your parts.
Sorry also to all our valued & loyal customers who may have gone to the Int. Classic Car Show, hoping to see us this weekend. We just felt that four & half days in that enclosed environment was still too risky.
Kind regards, Barry W.
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Richard Hardy
United Kingdom
2165 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2021 : 19:23:49
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Notably, the response sadly, does not address in any shape or form, any of the question raised and questions which are entirely reasonable to ask.
If an enthusiast were to break up a complete car then I suspect there would be widespread disapproval and I would be Very much posing these questions. My concerns are not lessened with a breaker being a second hand parts trader.
This car has survived 87 years including WWII, now to reach a very sad end indeed, Of course, I have not seen the car In question so there may be a perfectly acceptable reason for breaking a car which is 100% complete.
So, I wold like to raise the question once more, so what is the reason for breaking this car as opposed to offering a restoration project to an enthusiast. I would like to think a reasonably priced restoration project may just possibly attract a younger enthusiast, something the mmm circle and club so desperately Desperately needs.
Maintaining the Breed, or Maintaining the Greed?
I will give the MMM car breaker a last word on the points raised, as I do not intend discussing the topic further. I have raised various valid points.
PS 25 years in the business, in source manufacturing of Quality MMM parts, 38 years a dedicated MMM enthusiast. No MMM cars have been harmed during this period! 
Vintage MG Parts |
Edited by - Richard Hardy on 13/11/2021 19:44:02 |
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Jamie
Canada
218 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2021 : 19:53:13
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Oh please, let’s not go down this road again….play nicely or not at all!
Jamie |
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Harry
Canada
143 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2021 : 19:56:02
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The topic of originality and preservation of cars is absolutely central to all who are into them and to this forum.
I think it's important to have a healthy conversation on this subject and would encourage this elsewhere on the forum.
With discussion, only then can the right way forward be agreed upon.
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Robin Macmillan
United Kingdom
415 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2021 : 21:19:35
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Oh dear …. To suggest that the breaking of a complete car “anything from engine to dash switch” with a 24 hour window ( 13 to 14 November ) is the way to go is in my opinion a retrograde step. The MMM world recognises the role in supporting the breed that Traders like Barry Walker and others have achieved over decades …. This was their finest hour …. Now I fear like some currently in UK politics the rewards justify the means.
Robin
PB 0527 |
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Nick Feakes
USA
3391 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2021 : 15:03:54
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The "replies" count will be incorrect as I have edited with the database without messing it up and I want to quit whilst I am ahead!
Nick
Webmaster |
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Mark T Boldry
United Kingdom
96 Posts |
Posted - 15/11/2021 : 21:04:57
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I have to put my hands up.... Sorry guys, I’ve done this myself with MGAs, Mini Cooper and Cooper S s, Lotus Cortina and Spridgets.... but that was 30 - 40 years ago when those cars were certainly not as desirable or as rare as they are today... Surely, surely nobody in their right mind would even consider ‘breaking for spares’ anything ‘classic’ today, especially a MMM MG..! Oh dear... :-(
Mark T Boldry
J2 3714
L1 0589
D 0431
Knaresborough, North Yorkshire. |
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merlinart
United Kingdom
149 Posts |
Posted - 16/11/2021 : 17:34:56
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I have no intention of siding with Barry Walker for breaking a PA...I simply have no idea as to the condition of the car...might it be reasonably safe to assume though, that if it was economically viable to restore/rebuild, then he would have advertised it as such? After all, just how does anyone come by used parts for any car unless a car has been broken up because it might have been beyond economic repair, or it was damaged. So, was the car in question beyond economic repair? Or is it simply...none of our business?
Arthur |
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merlinart
United Kingdom
149 Posts |
Posted - 16/11/2021 : 17:38:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark T Boldry
I have to put my hands up.... Sorry guys, I’ve done this myself with MGAs, Mini Cooper and Cooper S s, Lotus Cortina and Spridgets.... but that was 30 - 40 years ago when those cars were certainly not as desirable or as rare as they are today... Surely, surely nobody in their right mind would even consider ‘breaking for spares’ anything ‘classic’ today, especially a MMM MG..! Oh dear... :-(
Mark T Boldry
Likewise, TR2, TR4, many 60s Midgets etc...one did in those days!
J2 3714
L1 0589
D 0431
Knaresborough, North Yorkshire.
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TomDrewett
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
Posted - 17/11/2021 : 21:15:07
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I would far rather debate in a pub, but condensing somewhat:-
Whilst it feels wrong to break a car it is also the case that many cars lay dormant or off the road. If breaking one car is helping two more survive are ‘we’ better served ?
I’m glad of all our suppliers of parts and service , whatever length of service to the industry given that they have invested the time and money to develop their respective businesses. Thanks all from an M Type in Wales , sometimes on the road and sometimes not! |
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sam christie
United Kingdom
3111 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2021 : 13:14:26
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When a car is 'broken' does it mean that it ceases to exist even if the chassis becomes the basis for a complete rebuild?
Sam |
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John James
United Kingdom
965 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2021 : 14:21:09
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Sam,
You must tell the DVLA that the car has been scrapped and that would include the chassis. |
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sam christie
United Kingdom
3111 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2021 : 16:30:02
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Do the words 'beaking' and 'scrapping' mean the same thing? They seem to be interchangeable in this thread.
'Scrapping' conjures pictures of total destruction, and melting down.
Sam |
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JMH
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2021 : 17:07:10
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I think the DVLA are pretty binary on this (they do not view car identities in the same way an "enthusiast" does). You can tax it, SORN it, or dismantle/break/destroy/obliterate it. You are just legally required to tell them (I think they use the word "must"). Unless there is no V5C in the first place, in which case; good luck in getting a new one....
JH |
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