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Mac1955
Germany
61 Posts |
 Posted - 03/11/2022 : 17:09:26
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Hi gang,
After pressure washing the chassis, we found a 1698 stamped on the steering bracket.
Can anyone tell me what this is
Thanks!
Dana
J3699
Dana MacDuff
J3699 |
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Allan Bentley
United Kingdom
257 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2022 : 16:59:04
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Hello.
Although disputed many years ago, I believe this number, which is neatly stamped on the only removable part of a production chassis, to provide a clearly visible identification of each chassis frames after assembly.
I have seen film of a chassis frame being riveted together at the Abingdon works with two operatives working as a team on opposite sides of a frame using pneumatic rivet guns.
I would have thought that M.G. accounts and production control must have had a reference system, so their 'bean counters' could identify and keep stock of parts and assemblies arriving at the works and completed assemblies such as chassis frames.
On the M.G. production line each car received its chassis number on the front RH spring casting, only when assembly was complete. The body colour code and chassis number can be found stamped on the bonnet hinge. History records that the final identification was a job for a workshop apprentice, who spent most of his day on his knees with stamp box and paperwork.
Allan B |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6155 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2022 : 17:13:08
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Allan,
When you say “each car only received its chassis number on the front RH spring casting, only when assembly was complete” do you mean assembly of the chassis was complete, or assembly of the car was complete?
Simon J
J3437 |
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Allan Bentley
United Kingdom
257 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2022 : 12:09:26
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I understood from Mike Allison and in one of the many MMM books I have digested over 60 years, that the visible chassis number was stamped at the end of the line when assembly was complete and the car ready for delivery.
The two other identification plates on the firewall were probably fitted earlier to identify the car and its client, spec, and body colour.
I understood that each bonnet was trimmed, if required, so gap clearances between scuttle and radiator were correct. This was the reason for the chassis number being stamped on the bonnet hinge. The entire body assembly could then be identified further down the line at final assembly.
It was a requirement as now that all motor vehicles had a chassis identification number stamped on the chassis.
Some of the competition cars competing in international events had an additional chassis number stamped on the top of the RH chassis rail.
(Source Peter Green).
Allan B
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3680 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2022 : 13:34:08
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Just to add slightly to Allan’s posting. I received a nugget of information from Mike Allison quite some years ago in which he explained that the chassis knuckles were made by the James motorcycle company. They were inserted into the ladder chassis frames when these were built and the intended model type letter was then stamped on the knuckle. The numbers were added later when that car’s specific identity had been established during the manufacturing process.
Hope this helps.
Dick Morbey, Register Secretary
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK
secretary@triple-mregister.org |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6155 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2022 : 14:45:26
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To add another tidbit, the date of issue of the guarantee plate is generally some weeks before the car is completed/dispatched (four weeks in the case of my car) and this would seem to have been done once the engine, which was already numbered I believe, was installed. At this point the whole is greater than the sum of the parts and a 'car' is created. The engine number was hand stamped on the guarantee plate - presumably on the production line - but the car number (chassis number) was pre-etched on the plate. Surely the chassis number would have to have been stamped on the knuckle at the start of the assembly process rather than at the end to ensure the right bits were fitted, e.g. two-seater or four-seater body?
Simon J
J3437 |
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RobinBarker
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2022 : 04:30:06
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I believe that Allan Bentley’s answer to the original question in this topic is totally correct. The stamped number (1698) is indeed the unique number used by the MG frame shop at Abingdon to identify this particular J2 frame after it had been assembled and riveted together.
I was previously unaware that MG had stamped frame numbers pre-war but there is certainly a fair bit of indisputable data that they did so on at least 3 post-war, welded MG frames (Y, TD and MGA).
Review of this data reveals a few basic facts, some of which are:
1) The first production frame of a new model seems to have been identified with the frame identification number of 1.
2) Subsequent frames were all in turn assigned the next sequential frame number and often but not always stamped accordingly until production of that model ceased. Possibly as many as 100,000+ frames were stamped in this way in the case of the MGA.
3) If you take the Car No. from a particular MG and subtract from that the Car No. from the very first production car of that particular model, you get an approximate prediction of what Frame No. was used in the production of that car.
For example, the above predicts that MGA Car No.45508 would have been built using Frame No. 35407 (45508 minus 10101). The actual Frame No. stamped into the frame of 45508 is 35524. Pretty darn close.
In the case of the J2, the prediction is that J2 Car No. 3699 would have been built using Frame No. 1698 (3699 minus 2001). Now isn’t that a shocking coincidence!
If owners of any and all pre-war MGs take the time to discover a Frame No. on their car and then message that number along with the corresponding MG Car No., then we may be able to learn more about the use of frame numbers by MG.
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6155 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2022 : 07:21:12
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quote:
Originally posted by RobinBarker
In the case of the J2, the prediction is that J2 Car No. 3699 would have been built using Frame No. 1698 (3699 minus 2001). Now isn’t that a shocking coincidence!
It does seem to be a coincidence as, by the time J3699 was being built (October 1933), 380 J1s had also been built and they used a completely different car/chassis numbering system (beginning at J0252) but the same frame. It seems unlikely that the guys building the frames were able to decide which were to be J1s and which J2s. For example, by the end of July 1932, four J1s had been issued with guarantee plates (J0252 - J0255) but only two J2s (J2001 and J2002). Would the frame guys have known this was what was planned (if indeed it was planned), and numbered the frames accordingly?
Simon J
J3437 |
Edited by - Simon Johnston on 13/11/2022 07:22:21 |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6155 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2022 : 08:37:06
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I’m not sure how the double post was achieved- Nick, could you delete the second one?
It also occurred to me that if Robin's theory is correct, in the case of the J2, one wouldn’t add 2001 to the frame number to get the chassis number, but 2000. Frame number 1 would equate to J2001, not J2002.
Simon J
J3437 |
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Nick Feakes
USA
3394 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2022 : 12:45:14
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Simon
Done
Nick
Webmaster |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6155 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2022 : 18:40:33
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Thanks, Nick.
Simon J
J3437 |
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