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John
United Kingdom
51 Posts |
 Posted - 03/02/2005 : 08:51:35
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Paul, just a thought on the checking of temperature when thermo fitted. The problem appears to be that we need to know that the water temperature nearer the head is at an exceptable level controlled by the thermo which will be at a differant level. What about using the temperature strips which colour change and give a actual deg indication, as a test verification one of these could be stuck onto the water manifold, the car used in anger, and then a reading taken. Not as useful as a proper sensor but a lot less trouble, no mods and would give a little bit of belt and braces.
Mocal Aeroquip did offer them at about a quid each, and I think Frost also do them.
John |
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Peter Green
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 00:06:14
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Paul, you might be interested to know that Kenlowe Ltd. (the electric fan people) sell a temperature control switch (intended for use with their cooling fans) which can be fitted into the water manifold without any alterations. The very small capillary tube attached to the sensor will fit between/underneath the existing hose to the radiator and the water manifold. I quote from Kenlowe's sales literature, ôThe in water sensor ensures optimum sensitativity and fast response to rapid temperature changes. Adjustable over a wide range of temperatures (55 degrees C û 120 degrees C). The unique Kenlowe moulded silicone seal works with existing radiator hoses so they do not have to be cut. The Kenlowe temperature control switch features a differential of only 3 degrees C between cut in and cut out temperatures and has an enviable record of reliability and durability established over many yearsö.
Peter. |
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sven
Sweden
431 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 14:17:34
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Just a short note on the Kenlowe thermostat. If works very well. I have used it on my Big Healy for some 20 years with a pressurized system. No leaks.
On my L type with oil thermometer I have fitted a small thermostat in the usual place in the radiator with a warning buzzer under the dash. No electric fan yet. We will see if that will be necessary. So far only boils in prolonged traffic ques.
Good Luck everyone. |
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Cymber
United Kingdom
966 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 19:33:05
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Kevin's thermister is quite small so it could be fitted in a thin aluminium sandwhich plate between the water manifold and the head and be almost undetectable.
Maurice. |
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Cymber
United Kingdom
966 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2005 : 21:22:17
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Paul,
It's 46 years since I had a MMM engine and assume that the water manifold has either 2 or 3 two bolt flanges where it mounts on the head. What I had in mind is aluminium sandwich plates just thick enough to accomodate the thermister trapped between the manifold and the head. These would be the same profile as the flange except for the one housing the thermister which will need extra metal on the upper edge to house it. I would fit the thermister in the bottom of a drilled hole which does not quite break through to the water side and secure it with high strength araldite. This is just an idea but I don't see why it or something like it shoudn't work. It does have the advantage that it does not involve any irreversible modifications a would not look too obvious.
Just one more thought, perhaps it is possible to get a resister small enough to mount in this way and have a proper temperature gauge. Do we have any electronic engineers on this forum who could help with this?
Thinking about MMM water manifolds again has reminded me that they suffered badly from electrolytic corrosion but I assume that everyone uses plenty of inhibitor these days. |
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Nick Feakes
USA
3378 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2005 : 01:46:29
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I can design you a simple circuit. A neat way to mount the sensor is to trap it under a handy bolt (water manifold?). Give me a couple of days
Nick |
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John
United Kingdom
51 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2005 : 13:57:29
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Many thanks to everyone for advice and information, thermostat is now fitted, I drilled 2 x 2mm holes in rim to enable flow through.
Once again many thanks,
John |
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Nick Feakes
USA
3378 Posts |
Posted - 20/02/2005 : 13:16:49
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Hi Paul
that all sounds OK to me. You will need to stabilise the termister supply with a zener (5.1v is best). You could use a thermocouple chosen for the correct temperature range as they are more robust but it probably wouldn't make much difference. Use a pot to calibrate the circuit (in a saucepan or a kettle with a thermometer) and then substitute fixed resistors, they are far more reliable and stable. There is an ic which for temperature warnings but I am away for a few days so I can't look it up, but if you are still interested I will see what I can find when I get home (end of the month). If anyone needs a detailed circuit and layout with component values, e-mail me and I will put something together.
Nick |
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William Opie
United Kingdom
28 Posts |
Posted - 20/02/2005 : 20:12:24
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Hi Bob
I have for many years run with a thermostat in the top hose and found it helps warm up the engine really quickly. However I have several comments from my experience of this. Firstly my radiator on the NB was rebuilt and therefore rather efficient. Secondly I have drilled an extra vent hole in the thermostat to help when filling.
Thirdly I now only use it in winter. This is because I suspected that on a really hot day after a fast run the flow was slighly restricted causing overheating ( I boiled on the embankement on my way to silverstone on a friday night!)
Of course I should fit a fan as well. In winter I really find the thermostat helps. I cannot find the reference number right now but it is the same diameter as the aluminium head outlet.I cannot comment on other hot spots which is a worry but by allowing some flow I believe a compromise to efficient engine warming particularly in the winter months could be useful
Best
William |
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Bob Clare
United Kingdom
278 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2005 : 13:35:00
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Golly, I really didn't believe that my enquiry about thermostats would generate a three-pager correspondence!
OK so here's my dampener for those great scientific minds who have posted so many erudite comments about measuring devices and physico-mechanics which I don't pretend to begin to undertand:-
I've designed, constructed and fitted a radiator shutter mechanism, with cockpit control, which holds the NB nicely at 80-85C. It has the "advantage" of necessitating my reaching purposefully below the dash when stationary to adjust the air flow and that always gets the onlookers wondering what I'm doing with this wonderous old car!
Hey ho - wouldn't have one if I wasn't a bit of a kid would I?
Thanks for all the contributions nonetheless.
Bob Clare |
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Nick Feakes
USA
3378 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2005 : 16:54:58
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Hi Paul
that should be OK. Twist the wires to the thermister together well, this should prevent any external signal pickup
Nick |
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Bob Clare
United Kingdom
278 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2005 : 23:43:41
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To Paul,
The radiator shutter option:
Certianly will share it (for what it's worth). I'm planning a little bit for the Bulletin.
Bob |
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Blue M
United Kingdom
1474 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2009 : 19:39:58
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This is a rather old topic, but I have just been reading about the thermo - syphon thermostats which used to be made. These had a butterfly like a carb which ensured plenty of water flow.
Has anyone ever come across one?
Ian |
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MaGic_GV
United Kingdom
868 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2009 : 20:50:06
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I thought I would chuck my two pennorth in here by saying that I have a fan which fits the P-type and I did use it in years gone by - the cross piece that secures the rad to the head has to go (in fact my car didn't have one when I bought it) and the fan bolts on in its place.
The factory offered such an extra for cars that served abroad, which my car did (in Germany in the fifties, somewhat after the cars heyday, with its inevitable forces owner - hardly any hotter than the UK I would have thought!) It had to go when I fitted the blower -I have no idea whether mine is the factory offered version or some other, but it certainly fits without any messing about.
Perhaps the solution is to keep moving, as it is a lack of airflow which causes the problem in the first place! It didn't seem to cause these difficulties in the thirties...
Graham |
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Steve Cooper
United Kingdom
57 Posts |
Posted - 20/06/2009 : 21:24:47
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There was a thermostat fitted in the top hose with a bye-pass hose AS STANDARD to early K types (2 & 3 carb models). There is a picture of this with a blow up showing it all quite clearly on page six in the K workshop manual. I see no reason why this cannot be applied possibly in a modern form to all MMM engines. I would stipulate a water pump and almost certainly an electric fan.  |
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