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DavidBir
Canada
10 Posts |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
 Posted - 30/07/2010 : 09:06:07
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The car was built as the advert says by Peter Cranage but also his freind Roger Davies (who had another N type special) but in the very late 60's - so it is probably more accurate to call it a 70's special.
The car started life as an ND but it was rather worse for wear and worth little at the time.
Roger raced the car a number of times before selling it to Peter - the body at the time being made of plywood (this body still exists fitted to another car owned by Roger at the time now fitted with a blown T XPAG engine).
Peter progressively worked on the car fitting the body reportedly from the TT winning NE (now owned by Peter Green).
The body comming off of Geoff Coles' pre-war J2 special (thought at the time to be J4-003).
Peter always tried to make the car look an sound like an NE - the car was always run un-blown and was probably the fastest un-blown MG with a lap time around the old Silverstone triangle of around 1 min 20 secs.
Peter and my Dad used to have amazing dices the unblown special and the blown NA (NA 037) being very evenly matched.
The car was run by Peter and his brother David until about 5-10 years ago when it went out of circulation.
It is nice to see it back again but it looks nothing like its former self.
The blower and large engine make the car potentially very fast indeed - but will require less skill to drive than Peter did when he was alble to lap very near the lap speeds of the blown cars without the aid of a puffer.
The funny thing is that I drove the car a couple of times and although it was great fun I could never see why it was so quick.
The engine was pretty well clapped out and the chassis was also similarly worn but Peter made the car really sing.
As a side note the body has a bulge in the side panel alongside the drivers foot.
The lagacy of converting the car to a right hand throttle pedal when fitted to the J chassis.
When we built the NB special with the replica NE body the space for the drivers feet and a right hand throttle was very tight indeed - which is probably why the NE racers mostly had the convetional (for the time) centre throttle pedals.
Unfortunately I can not afford to buy the car and even if I did I doubt I have the skill to drive it as fast as Peter did unblown.
But my sisters car shows that it is a potentially quick car with a blower in the right hands.
It is such a shame that another piece of MG history has been slightly altered to improve the cars saleability.
Dont get me wrong - the owners perogative and all that - but I personally would prefer the car be preserved to an NE copy that it was built as.
Regards David
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Peter Green
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2010 : 10:47:51
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David,
As you probably know the car has no chassis number stamped on it and one of the people who was involved, with Roger Davis, in its construction in the 1960's says it is NOT built on an ND chassis although some of the parts may have come from an ND.
Peter |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2010 : 11:11:33
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Peter
It appears to have gained a chassis number now though?
Thing is that when Peter and Roger were playing with the cars they were not worth anything - now they appear to be achieving a great deal of history and provenance.
The car was never entered by Pete Cranage as anything other than an MG N - although much to his embarrasment the VSCC often called it an NE replica, which he certainly never tried to claim.
Never mind - as long as the thing is used I dont really care.
Regards David |
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DavidBir
Canada
10 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2010 : 16:11:44
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| Many thanks David and Peter-I asked and I received! |
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Ray Masters
United Kingdom
568 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2010 : 19:38:21
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| Was this car not sold by , I think , Terry Bone to somebody in the Czech Republic a few years ago ?. I remember seeing it then & it was in pretty poor condition, bodily at least ; almost like a 'barn find' . Presumably the many mods & much improved condition was done out there. Peter & I were regulars at places like Curborough & Silverstone , both MGCC & VSCC events in the 60s & 70s & he always drove it very well as others have said. I think he called it an NA Special but without looking up my old programmes I cannot be sure. |
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Peter Green
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2010 : 22:22:13
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Ray,
The car was sold by Terry Bone to the present owner who lives in the UK. The work has been done in the UK over the last few years.
Peter. |
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Brian Kelly
USA
526 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2010 : 23:50:27
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Out of a matter of interest only.
In the first Register (1986) the car is listed under; ND. Chassis NA 0253. Engine 507AN.
The comments list: NE Body. Ex. J4003. Ex. NA 0522.
However, I had a number of viewings of the car in the early to mid '70s. Here's a shot of it I took at Silverstone, which shows the bulge David mentions. Further photos of the car in action on the Historic Photos section under Model-ND
Brian.
I have deleted a portion of this posting. I had earlier crossed digits on a chassis number. Sorry for the confusion to those who had read it.
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Edited by - Brian Kelly on 31/07/2010 04:52:27 |
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Dow
United Kingdom
490 Posts |
Posted - 31/07/2010 : 05:04:26
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Does all the above mean that this is NA 0253 or not. Lovely car though.
Regards
David D |
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Steve Cooper
United Kingdom
57 Posts |
Posted - 31/07/2010 : 12:02:02
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| By total co-incidence, there will be an article in the next MMM Bulletin due out very shortly, titled "Story of an N Type" which details the origins and history of this very car from '64 to date. Funnily enough, the article was prompted by David Allison's piece "Fings ain't what they used to be", which appeared in Bulletin 53 and NOT by the fact that this car is for sale right now. The article was written by me. Why me? Because I was one of the three people including Roger Davis who built the car originally - I know EXACTLY what happened. The gist of David's posting is basically correct but there are some glaring errors: The chassis number NEVER was NA 0253 and therefore NEVER was an ND. Engine number 507AN (being the original engine of NA 0253) was NEVER used in this car. Roger Davis NEVER owned "another N type special" nor "another car fitted with a plywood body". The plywood body referred to was actually made by Peter Cranage and as of today no longer exists. All these references appertain to the SAME car. Roger Davis DID NOT sell the car to Peter Cranage. Peter Green sold NA 0522(NE) over a year ago now. It just shows how history can be distorted and rewritten! I do not wish to say any more now before my article goes into print for fear of spoiling the read. However, should anyone wish to speak to me about this car, please contact me by telephone: 01524263043 or by email. I would add that all references, facts and figures both here and in the forthcoming article concerning this car, have been checked and verified by Peter Cranage himself. Oh, and David, did you drive it after Peter sold it? The engine was far from clapped out - just built correctly; read the article to find out how much power it kicked out! |
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tholden
United Kingdom
1638 Posts |
Posted - 31/07/2010 : 17:16:21
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Like many people I remember this car being raced by Peter Cranage. The engine never sounded clapped out it ran as sweet as anything and the car was always very quick whenever I saw it. I assume now but did not realise at the time that is the N special that was at the Goodwood Revival last year. The people working on it in the paddock could not get it to run and Tom Dark eventually came over and helped them get it started. Some peope expressed an element of surprise that the car had been accepted for the Revival when there was presumably a number of genuine original MG racing cars that would have liked an entry.
TH |
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Steve Cooper
United Kingdom
57 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2010 : 23:03:08
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| TH - you are right. Compared to the car's previous prolific successes, it was a joke. It certainly didn't do the image of the MG marque any favours that day - there are plenty of other genuine historic MG's that would have though. This begs the question: how did the entry of that car get accepted? |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2010 : 09:22:11
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Steve
Many thanks for correcting my errors - I did not mean to upset Peter or anyone else just used a bit of poetic licensce.
I drove the car at Curborough (Peter let me drive it back to the paddock while he drove my Midget - which I had bought from him) and later (a couple of years before he sold the car) around the paddock at Silverstone - I just couldnt see why it was so quick.
I did not mean that I had raced it!
The refference regards clapped out actually came from Peter at the time I drove it at Silverstone - because there was a stuck piston ring on one cylinder and it blew a bit of smoke on the over run - plus the king pins were showing some "end of season wear".
My comments were pretty much admiration of Peter to be honest - the car was always very quick and in the years he ran it was SO reliable.
The engine was always "blueprinted" always built well and almost NEVER broke down - I can only recall a couple of non finishes - there was a hilarious episode when a hub or kingpin broke (cant remmember which) and the poor car ended up in the catch fencing - Peter then got a bill from Silverstone for the catch fence which rather miffed him!
I thought that the plywood body was the one fitted no to Mike Zimmermans car?
Plus I always understood that both cars came from a similar stable - my mistake!
My memory is clouded by trying to remember what happened years ago.
Unlike my Dad MG history is not something I spend a great deal of time on - however I do know the difference between a real and a "questionable" car and get very angry when a well known car get messed about with.
Roll on the time someone gets the car running well again - it is a shame that it is now blown but that is the owners choice.
Look forward to reading your article Steve and sorry for my inaccuracies!
Regards David |
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MaGic_GV
United Kingdom
868 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 13:04:27
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As its the topic under discussion, I thought you might like to see this, taken with my trusty Instamatic in the early '70s...
I think that's Colvin Gunns P special alongside...
Cheers,
Graham |
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Steve Cooper
United Kingdom
57 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2010 : 22:29:18
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Well there it is! The latest MMM Bulletin is out (August 2010, No.56) and as previously advised, my "Story of an N Type" is in (thank you Philip) which details the history of this car. I note that Barry Walker's advert for the car states that the engine number is 507AN which, as I have previously advised above was NEVER used in this car. The number on the block when the car was sold by Peter Cranage was 589AN - a single breather block that Peter acquired in 1970. If 507AN is indeed on the current block, it will probably have been re-stamped. I also note that the advert has acquired an addition against the chassis number "Per DVLA". This, of course, is true but doesn't mean that it is correct. Again, as stated above, chassis NA 0253 was NOT used to build this car. The NB chassis which was used to build this car had the number stamping missing right from the start which, I believe, was still missing when Peter Green saw the car comparatively recently.
Anyway, enjoy the story which gives an insight of the man as well as the machine!
Steve.
(There is a misprint of one date: The re-appearance at the Goodwood Revival was of course in 2009 and not in 1999 as printed). |
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Steve Cooper
United Kingdom
57 Posts |
Posted - 27/08/2010 : 20:59:19
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Brian, thanks for your kind words re the article. With regard to the re-stamping of engine blocks in general (and chassis for that matter), it is a large "can of worms" worthy of another topic which I for one am not prepared to contemplate just at the moment.
Yours, Steve. |
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