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Dow
United Kingdom
490 Posts |
 Posted - 01/05/2012 : 08:22:29
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Over the years, this subject has been aired many times. It seems to me that the directors of the MGCC may listen to the MMM point of view but we are regarded as a very small and probably elitist section. I doubt that any other register has put forward similar concerns, and as such nothing will change unless Silverstone forces the issue (as in the Silverstone sprint).
The only way to get a race in the format we want is to have it run by a different club at a different venue, but you would then have a different spectator base. The VSCC let us run a MMM race at Silverstone a few years ago that was well supported but I think they would be unwilling to repeat the exercise on favouritism grounds, and certainly not annually.
We are stuck with MGLive and just have to put up with it as it is.
Purely my opinion is that this club used to be a club that was run for its members. Now I get the impression that the club is bigger than the members and feels we should be grateful to be allowed to join.
I am just grateful that the MMM section has not changed, and its members and committee and events are a delight to be associated with.
Regards
David D |
Edited by - Dow on 01/05/2012 08:24:20 |
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spitfire
United Kingdom
371 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2012 : 09:14:11
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A good, well balanced view of the MMM racing state of play.
MGs have survived well. Clubs have massive memberships, to the point there are clubs within clubs... Other car clubs are much smaller.
The VSCC brings these cars together, and to coin your phrasing Dave, their events are a delight due to that diversity.
So the MMM racing group is a bit dominant for a VSCC meet and too small to "drive" itself.
What about the idea (it's an IDEA, don't start throwing the chairs around!) that the racing concerns in MG, from the oldest to the very latest cars, band together to discuss "their lot?"
Form a committee to see where they can go with their concerns. Put their heads and £ together?
I've heard another MG club races...aswell.
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Dow
United Kingdom
490 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2012 : 09:33:33
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Not too dominant, just that there are so many marques within the VSCC that could put a reasonable grid together. Riley in particular.
I don't relish the idea of a break away group, or another committee. There are plenty of opportunities for the racing guys to give their cars an airing, both here and abroad. They are already voting with their feet as entry numbers at Silverstone show. We don't really need Silverstone, but MGLive will be the poorer without the pre-war cars. It's only one race in what can be a very full (and expensive) season.
I'm not sure the Owners club organises any race meetings, only has a championship that is run in association with the BARC, and not for Pre-war.
Regards
David D |
Edited by - Dow on 01/05/2012 10:01:48 |
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spitfire
United Kingdom
371 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2012 : 09:57:51
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Could not the old and new elements work in tandem to "head for the same facility?"
I don't mean a committee in a sit down sense, but co ordinators that could organise and communicate. A conduit for those to speak to. Maybe MGLive could get some MG racing heads together? I can't believe that new racing cannot get a buzz from being involved with a more primary version of what they have.
For instance- Period based races.
MMM, T type, MGA, MGB, Modified Abingdon cars, etc. Perhaps old and new do not make a good mix at all?
I'm only suggesting sharing costs and facilities. Rubbing shoulders with CC members with a common purpose. Thinking outside the MMM Box, or grid. |
Edited by - spitfire on 01/05/2012 20:21:04 |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2012 : 10:28:05
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Gentlemen - it is difficult to pull together all my thoughts at once while at work but I would like to urge you all towards care.
The MMM racing community is a close knit band - most of them compete within the VSCC rather than the wider MG club racing scene (MGCC _ MGOC _ HSCC etc...) because the racing within the VSCC better suits the cars.
VSCC entry costs are lower - the races are designed to suit the performance of the cars entered (there is not often a huge imbalance of performace) and the meetings constructed to encourage spectators.
The VSCC has also had its problems - most recently a lack of races for pre-war cars?
There is now more typically only one handicap and one short scratch race per meeting.
It is NOT a case that the MMM racing group is too dominating for the VSCC (certainly NOT), more a case that if every group within the VSCC wanted a race annually the club would need to run meetings every weekend of the year!
When I was a lad the MGCC program included a 1 hour High Speed Trial and at least three handicap races (including the General Secretaries Cup which was a 10 lapper) and we had 11 races in a day.
By the time I started competing the High Speed Trial was 20 minutes and there were no handicap races save the Mary Harris Trophy.
Entry fees within the MGCC have always been higher than VSCC.
Plus recently the decision to run the MMM race alongside the MGA and T Types has put many off.
However recently the cost of the MG event has become prohibitive to many competitors and with a VSCC event the same weekend (Mallory Park) I can quite understand them prefering to run 2 races at Mallory for the cost of 1 at Silverstone - plus they will be racing against cars of similar performance.
There is also an element of competition among some drivers which does not suit everyone - some people take their motorsports VERY seriously and others less so.
The less competitive are often put off and feel bullied by the more aggressive drivers - these drivers also tend to feel more at home within the VSCC.
Now we have no handicap races and no high speed trial.
The reason in my opinion is the profligration of Championships within the clubs (with the exception of the VSCC) has led to races for single model races and capacity class races which encourages organisers to offer only scratch races.
The "sealed handicap" is run (with the help of VSCC handicappers) by the register for MMM cars and this is because the grid has to be bolstered by "others" not eligable for the Mary Harris Trophy - the "sealed handicap" prevents the embarresment of presenting the main trophy to the wrong recipient.
There are already too many committees and ideas - unfortunately what is lacking is enough entrants at MGCC Silverstone.
The truth is that in my opinion the MGCC would rather not hold a race for the MMM cars at all and have been trying justify not having it for around 25 years.
The MMM race is an inconveniece to the meeting - the fact that the register can consistently manage to field a grid of cars larger than any other register for the older cars means that they can not justify not having the race - plus the race and the cars are consistently the biggest draw in the paddock for spectators.
I have always felt and given my opinion to those running the meeting in the past that the paddock should be sectioned off for individual races.
The trailers and motor homes should be parked away from the paddock in the area assigned for them.
The cars for individual races should be be parked together (like the successfull Goodwood meeting) and a more village fete atmosphere generated to help the spectators find out more information on the cars entered.
Spectators and camping should also be separate as it used to be and spectators should be parked around the track perimeter.
The current idea is very close to this idea - but seems to have lost its way.
The traffic jam within the paddock is not good, safe or helpfull to the spectators or more importantly the competitors.
There will be those who think that because I am detached from the club at the moment I should keep my mouth shut (they are probably right)!
I do think my ideas have merit and would be prepared (in normal circumstance) to back these ideas up - however I was continually baffled that these ideas havent been acted on when I was involved in the organisation so perhaps my idea do indeed have no merit.
If you want it changed get involved - but buy yourself a tin hat!
Regards David |
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etlanpa
United Kingdom
560 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2012 : 14:34:50
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...good old 'narrow & fiddly' Mallory Park 
Bang on by the way David |
Edited by - etlanpa on 01/05/2012 14:35:33 |
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kimber
United Kingdom
1529 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2012 : 20:49:24
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I suspect that for the majority of attendees (spectators and competitors) the MG CC Silverstone formula is just right. I therefore think the likes of Triple M racers trying to bring about any fundamental change is simply not going to happen.
I have personally grown to dislike much about the MG Live event and I can imagine myself not bothering to attend at all before much longer. Shame really, as I've been there just about every year of my adult life.
I'm afraid, in my view those who are responsible for running it have pretty much ruined it.
MG CC Silverstone was an absolute joy in the 60s, 70s, 80s and most of the 90s.
To be fair, its not all down to the MG CC, Silverstone Circuit have done a pretty comprehensive job of making their facility into one which no longer suits our event.
I've raced on the club and International circuits and enjoyed both. The International was really good fun. I've never raced on the GP circuit, which I imagine is fun in a quick Triple M car but in a standard-ish one must seem like a bloody long way round. From a spectator perspective, its useless for our type of race. Dull. (Sorry guys, but that's the reality).
The most fun I've had in Triple M competition for several years was the sprint at Silverstone last year. I'd do that again, but guess what - they've dropped it. It was good value and the course was ideal.
I'm afraid I have neither the strength or energy to get involved in trying to bring about any change and I have become far too disillusioned with it to be bothered. However, I very much hope that its not a lost cause and admire anyone prepared to lobby for change.
I think the horrid truth is that Silverstone aren't really bothered whether the MG CC are there or not and the MG CC are not really bothered who makes up the grids as long as they can both get a sufficient return by way of entry fees.
Oh dear, have I become terribly cynical? I probably have. Bah.
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Edited by - kimber on 01/05/2012 20:58:59 |
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JMH
United Kingdom
913 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2012 : 21:36:03
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Andrew, have you become cynical? I don't think so. Having attended last year, the first time in a while, the sprint event really re-awakened my enthusiasm. A self contained venue within a venue, with facilities for the rest of the family etc....... only it's not on this year! As for the racing; I'm afraid that the days of an 8 lap blat around the club circuit for the MHT, with a staggered start & most of the field from M Types & F Types, right up to to J4006 & K3021 all charging down the club straight into woodcote corner on the final lap (when the handicapper got it right) & finishing within a wisker of each other have long gone. Watching every MMM car reach their own terminal velocity, before rounding that bend was a real education in who could actually "walk the walk" as it were. The Glory Days really were in the 70s (if for nothing else!). Hell, you could even take dogs into the circuit for goodness sake!
JH
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spitfire
United Kingdom
371 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2012 : 21:59:26
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What about an Ace Cafe style, quick blat four miles from Towcester down the dualled A43.
Under the M1 at J15A and back again... Artics as "backmarkers".
I do it in the J2 5am! |
Edited by - spitfire on 01/05/2012 22:00:27 |
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Peter Green
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 00:42:51
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Kimber/Andrew,
Re. your comments about the sprint at Silverstone. The MGCC knew that last years sprint was enjoyed by all that took part and I can assure you that they would have held one this year if Silverstone had not significally raised the hire charge of the sprint circuit - would you have paid an entry fee 50% higher than last year?
Peter |
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John Reid
United Kingdom
705 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 00:51:47
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Peter,
Even more reason then for investigating the alternatives.
John |
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kimber
United Kingdom
1529 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 07:25:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Peter Green
Kimber/Andrew,
Re. your comments about the sprint at Silverstone. The MGCC knew that last years sprint was enjoyed by all that took part and I can assure you that they would have held one this year if Silverstone had not significally raised the hire charge of the sprint circuit - would you have paid an entry fee 50% higher than last year?
Peter
Don't tell me, let me guess.... Silverstone have already found somebody else they can hire the Stowe circuit to for 50% more than they charged us in 2011? Either that, or they are prepared for it to remain unused during the MG CC w/e if we wont agree to the arbitrary price hike?
Peter, you and I have had this debate for a good many years. You always give a better counter-argument than I certainly could when defending the MGCC. I will agree that on this point the 'blame' lays elsewhere.
Fees have been a big issue for as long as I remember. If we are now reduced to the position where we don't really have much of a race any more mainly as a result of escalating fees, the race is on an unsuitable circuit, the cost has driven many competitors away and spectators don't get much benefit from our input on the competition side, I'm afraid I'm with Dr Reid. Time to start looking elsewhere.
The thing that really bothers me is that the Club are prepare to spend on things like stunt-flying/aerobatic displays and ridiculous skidding antics with a man driving a modern car on 2 wheels, presumably not even an MG ? (thank goodness) throughout the weekend. Now I bet that cost a few quid. I seem to remember there was loud music as well over the PA. Why????? (I like loud music in the right circumstances but ... at a race meeting?).
I think I'm becoming Victor Meldrew. Somebody agree with me, please. |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6182 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 08:34:10
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quote:
Originally posted by kimber
I think I'm becoming Victor Meldrew. Somebody agree with me, please.
I agree with you, kimber - you are becoming like Victor Meldrew 
But seriously, it's many, many years since I was at Silverstone and from what I read here I'll be surprised (but not necessarily pleasantly) if I make it there this year as planned. Even the name - MGLive! - strikes me as faintly ridiculous. But I guess I should reserve judgement until I see for myself. |
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spitfire
United Kingdom
371 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 08:54:49
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I live less than twenty miles from Silverstone.
I agree with "Victor" in that if the heritage of the marque can't theme the weekend, what's it geared for? 
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Edited by - spitfire on 02/05/2012 14:08:49 |
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kimber
United Kingdom
1529 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 09:47:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon Johnston
quote:
Originally posted by kimber
I think I'm becoming Victor Meldrew. Somebody agree with me, please.
I agree with you, kimber - you are becoming like Victor Meldrew
I'll take that as a compliment ;-) |
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