| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Wyn Lewis
United Kingdom
153 Posts |
 Posted - 05/07/2012 : 18:49:07
|
I have a question for one of the moderators of the forum.
More than once, I have read people's desparate postings on the forum who have spent substantial amounts of money on their pride and joy only to have been let down badly. They turn to the forum in dispair and also to advise fellow members in the hope that they will not fall into the same trap. Shockingly, their postings are deleted and the so called specialists are free to go on their merry way doing the same again, and they know full well that this is what will happen. Some of these victims have contacted me feeling the same dispair as I do right now but where is the support from within the club? are you having a laugh?, no where in sight. I've received messages from members, some who have been Triple M owners for 40 years, how sad is that? yet the club offers them no support whatsoever. Shocking in my opinion. Surely the club could act as some kind of arbitration service at least. I've had an engine rebuilt by a so called specialist, it's been done so badly it beggers belief, (not cheap at £4k when I supplied the parts). A few highly respected people (no names as promised) within Triple M were shocked at how poor the work was. Well, it was far worse than they could have imamgined once the engine was taken apart, and more has come to light today which has my pulses racing.
When the engine is rebuilt, I will seek full refund of my costs from the so called Triple M specialist and I suspect that I will be told where to go, at least that's what I've been told to date, ('do you realise how much experience of Triple M I have'). I have a professional engineers's report, before strip down and after and photographic evidence of both. If I have to take legal action and get judgement, can this so called 'specialist' be named on the forum to protect other members who may spend all their savings having heared all the b....it I heard of how much better than anyone he is and fall for it like myself?
Not a difficult question. Yes or No?
I suspect, having received an email from the Chairman, that this email will also be deleted. If someone wants to contact me on wynlewis@btinternet.com I will expand on my concerns.
Wyn
|
Edited by - Wyn Lewis on 05/07/2012 19:13:21 |
|
|
Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6121 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2012 : 19:31:57
|
| Wyn, if you have a problem with any supplier of goods or services, why on earth do you expect a club comprised of volunteers to solve it for you? If you're not happy, take the provider to court. If you win, then come back and tells us the facts of the case that you have won; if you don't win, well....... |
 |
|
|
DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3677 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2012 : 19:32:54
|
Wyn
I have read this 'name and shame' posting as well as you earlier one to Neil on the 'intro' thread. I have also just now seen your subsequent comment on the 'Intro' thread - which Forum members may care to note seems to have been provoked by my sending you an e-mail earlier this evening after having seen the first of these postings.
Let's be quite clear - after all this is a well-trodden path, as made fully clear in the Register's policy statemen s on this website: The Register website and this Forum is not the place to air personal or business grievances between Triple-M car owners and suppliers of goods or services.
Nor is it the place for individuals to make statements in pursuit of a grievance - even if (in the mind of the person making the statement) such statements may be justified. And the Register will certainly not condone or be party to the publication of and such statements.
As you know I am highly familiar with your engine rebuild concerns. As you also know, you have received many hours of first hand support and guidance from me and others as we have sought to direct you down an appropriate path in order to resolve your difficulties. It is therefore hurtful to read your posting suggesting that the Club "offers .. no support whatsoever."
I will comment no further on the engine matter.
I hope that you will take the time to reflect on these words.
Regards
Dick Morbey |
|
|
|
Wyn Lewis
United Kingdom
153 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2012 : 20:17:27
|
Simon,
If you had read my question, you would not post such a comment. All I ask is, if I take the supplier to court and win my case, can I then post the name here to protect fellow members without having my message deleted? I finished with, not a difficult question, yes or no? Please read my posting again and you will understand what I was asking and accept that your reply was perhaps a little unfair (or there again, perhaps not). I suspect now that the answer to my question is no, but can't quite work out why. All I can then say is good luck to other members who fall into the same trap as me because you have not been offered any protection via the forum.
|
|
|
|
Nick Feakes
USA
3372 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2012 : 00:32:27
|
Wyn
If you take the supplier to court, you may publish on this forum, verbatim, the decision of the court that is already the subject of public record (or provide a link to that decision). What you may NOT do, is to amend or paraphrase the words contained in that ruling. I would equally permit the respondent the same consideration - that is only fair.
Nick
Webmaster |
|
|
|
Richard Hardy
United Kingdom
2159 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2012 : 02:26:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Hardy
It saddens me to read yet more posts like this although the Club is in a slightly difficult position, however.....
The internet is thankfully closing in the net on dishonest, unfair traders and poor service providers. Such traders are scared stiff of the internet as they know that adverse publicity is killing them. There are subtle ways to get the message across and occasionally the trader himself may come onto the Forum and help to hang himself before realising that he ought to remove his postings swiftly through self incrimination. What happened to the Morris 8 diff postings??
The T type Club circle have a similar problem with a minority element and they have banned the individual in question from advertising in the club magazine on the basis that 'they carry too much history'. A similar T type internet site has done exactly the same. So, if such people are known to the MMM Committee, and I know they are, then can they not look at taking action by way of being selective as to who is considered worthy to advertise in club literature based on general customer feedback and reported trading habits. Can advertising not be by invitation or committee decision as otherwise, the Club may be seen to possibly be endorsing such people. I think new members particularly deserve to be heard, they raise a valid point on a rather taboo subject and there should surely be ways to subtly address this ongoing problem without snaring traders through a costly court action.
Rich
Vintage MG Parts
Vintage MG Parts |
Edited by - Richard Hardy on 06/07/2012 02:37:56 |
|
|
|
talbot
United Kingdom
718 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2012 : 08:37:25
|
If I were a recognised and reputable engine builder I would want to get the message across that I was not the one responsible for Wyn's dreadful experience. It's actually a business opportunity for the "good guys"
Jan T |
|
|
|
Wyn Lewis
United Kingdom
153 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2012 : 08:45:43
|
Thank you Richard. Thank you too Nick, you have answered my question clearly and fairly. I hope this specialist will settle matters with me without the need for any legal action. I can then put it behind me and move on. The choice will be his.
Without wanting to prolong the subject, I believe that I should post that I have received just short of two dozen emails over the last 12 hours. Without exception, they were in full support and all bar one have had problems with specialists. Some, far worse than myself and to quote one reply 'I was told to foxtrot oscar' when I complained!. these emails came from everywhere including USA, NZ, Australia and South Africa. Resolving a problem from such distances is pretty much impossible without the understanding of the supplier. I would repeat that I deal with some first class suppliers and specialists but if the emails I receive are anything to go by, I fear that they are in the minority and not the majority (personal opinion only). New enthusiastic members like myself lose interest and decide to move to other things in life rather than throw good money after bad.
To those who do a good job, have morals and principles, all I say is keep doing a good job, we all rely on you and value your efforts more than you may think. Yes things go wrong and we all make mistakes. Not a problem for me, it's the willingness to help resolve those problems that are important. To new members who have no idea who to trust, rely on recommendations from people who have had personal experiences, people who have had a good service themselves not just emails from names they recognise from the forum and assume 'well if says go to a certain person, he must be good'. Sadly this is not always the case which I found to my cost.
Wyn
I have amended my message after receiving an email clarifying certain matters this morning. Since no dates were given to be, I think it only fair to delete part of my message as recommendations to others may have been made before my problems came to light.
|
Edited by - Wyn Lewis on 06/07/2012 10:27:05 |
|
|
|
paul55
Luxembourg
731 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2012 : 11:44:58
|
While I understand the Clubs position fully, I also understand some of the members problems when dealing with less than honest suppliers / specialists. I know first hand as well! But it was only afterwards that I was told about this guy, by which time my wallet was several hundred pounds lighter. I would think that it's the same old names that keep on cropping up, and after all there's usually no smoke without a fire. Surly something can be done to inform members unscrupulous dealers/traders. How about revising our recommended suppliers list, and being made more difficult to be inscripted onto the list, and if more that a set number of bad feedbacks are received they are removed? If the dealers / traders do not agree to these terms before hand then they are not entered onto the list at all. This should push customer service and a determination on their part to resolve any disagreements amicably. Finally, all the MMM suppliers and traders have no issue with being placed on our recommended list, with just the say so of one or two members, but they should be removed on the same basis.
Just my thoughts,
Paul.
|
|
|
|
DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3677 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2012 : 12:22:39
|
Wyn
The receiving or loss of advertising revenue is neither here nor there.
I would be happy be receive people's comments if they would care to send them to me off-line.
Dick Morbey
PA/PB 0743
Henley-on-Thames, Oxon, UK |
|
|
|
TomDrewett
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2012 : 12:52:43
|
Positive recommendations are a good route and I recall many posts about how this could be feasible, although it seems not so easy in practice as to how it should work.
I suppose one way would be to include a section titled "Recently Rebuilt Engines in which one could simply your put your name & car model and a brief synopsis, i.e Full engine rebuild, or top end rebuild and anybody, new members or existing alike would know that you had undergone an engine rebuild in the last say 5 years and would be free to contact you to discuss it before drawing their own conclusions. Strikes me as a very fair way of doing it.
I should also say that I think we are fortunate to have such a diverse range of suppliers, seems you can obtain practically anything which is remarkable for cars of our age! I have bought MMM specific parts from a number of them after due consideration to my specific requirement in each circumstance and have been very pleased with the products and customer service of each, although I sympathise deeply with those who have had serious problems. Certainly if the time comes where I require any in depth work I will spend a good deal of time researching and speaking to those who have already 'trodden the path'...
MG M Type |
|
|
|
PeterL
United Kingdom
1722 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2012 : 16:57:24
|
I found a piston ring compressor in my sump after one of my engines had been rebuilt!
Tom Dark did a lovely job on one of my Fs, bit of a problem getting the engine back from him though, but it has run perfectly since, and Tim Miller helped with my J and that goes so well it breaks half shafts!
Cheers
P |
|
|
|
McEvoy
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2012 : 18:27:51
|
Whatever list or scheme is decided as the best way to highlight good or not so good suppliers might I suggest as I inferred on the MG Live posting that what speaks louder than lists are those who are prepared to demonstrate their Triple-M engineering skills on the race tracks, hill climbs and trials. New members should do their best to attend a competitive event and speak to the Triple-M participants who will steer you in the right direction for knowledge and parts suppliers for our cars.
Fifty years ago when many of us got hooked on these cars we all learnt the hard and expensive way. Admitedly still expensive but the opportunity of avoiding the errors has increased enormously due in no small measure to the FOC advice available to all on this Forum.
Remember "it is good to talk" but the Register cannot and should not be an arbiter between Supplier and Customer. The Register Committee comprises people from all walks of life with one common enthusiasm for all things Triple-M but this does not give us the qualification to stand up in a Court expressing a view on behalf of A or B. We may have opinions and we do, but what is needed between plaintiff and defendant are FACTS.
Bob |
|
|
|
John James
United Kingdom
963 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2012 : 18:30:44
|
As referenece to my website has been made in a previous post I thought I would include an extract from one of my members/subscribers which sums up his experiences.
"0ver the last few years I have suffered a long period of painful and terribly expensive disillusionment with so-called ‘specialists’ in the UK recommended ‘without responsibility’ by the MGCC.
I really appreciate the fact that an authentic lover of the marque, a man of integrity and committment, of uncompromising standards, has been selfless enough to continue his outstanding contributions to the joys and sorrows of T-type ownership. He has kept his head above the questionable practices of many ‘respected’ names that are drifting on past laurels and remain unnacountable to the beleaguered customer.
Classic car restoration has become in my lifeteime(my first MG TC 43 years ago)a billion pound industry throughout the world. The golden calf is doing its nasty work. However few of us are ‘cheque book’ restoration Charlies just waiting to be milked dry. Thank God there are some enthusiastic, altruistic amateurs (in the original and best sense) of the ‘old school’ left to maintain the breed, the standards and the innocent enjoyment we all experienced with these cars many years ago, days when motoring life was so very different."
I take pride in the fact that I am independent of any Car Club and steadfastly refuse paid advertising in my magazine "Totally T-Type 2"
which from a standing start less than two years ago is the largest circulation T-Type magazine in the world.
I have been approached by some T-Type specialists who have asked about paid advertising and have given one in particular short shrift, telling him that there is too much history attached to him.
Although I have referred to T-Types above I am also reasonably conversant with the Triple-M scene, having been a past Triple-M scribe for 'Safety Fast' and the owner of two Triple-M cars and a chassis. Put it this way - I know who to avoid!
If I was to make one recommendation for Triple-M engine work, it would be Brian Taylor of Hopton Heath Garage (near Craven Arms, Shropshire). Brian is an acknowledged expert on AC engines and is conversant with Triple-M engines. He is currently rebuilding a PA engine which was sold to the "green" owner as a kit of parts by someone who I had better not mention. Suffice to say that Brian phoned me one day with the words "You'll never believe this but a customer has just brought a PA engine to me and having stripped it down, the only component worth saving is the rocker cover - and even that needs welding!" The "green" owner has so far spent over £12,000 on parts and still does not have everything.
Brian has a waiting list as long as your arm but I recommend him without reservation.
JOHN JAMES www.ttypes.org |
|
|
|
spitfire
United Kingdom
371 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2012 : 18:40:46
|
Hello Wyn. I've had a little internet rest as my adsl signal was knocked out at the telephone exchange.
I too have had personal e mails from all round the globe. I don't even route mails via the club anymore, as we have an Us and Them culture.
I can understand everyones' viewpoint.
I became involved in this club as it centred on the car I bought.
I am in the process of writing an article, due for publishing, on buying my J2.
The experiences I had as a new owner when buying a 79 year old bit of iconic design.
I've just caught John James' comment. A breath of fresh air!
I've just put your site on my favourites list.
Bob. 50 years ago I was just trading in my Silver Cross pram...
|
Edited by - spitfire on 06/07/2012 19:02:10 |
|
|
|
DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3677 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2012 : 11:52:46
|
Hello Wyn,
The usual situation with new Bosch distributors (Model 009, for example) is that it's necessary to machine a small amount of metal off the bottom of the base, so that it is able to reach sufficiently down into the front bearing housing so that it can make contact and engage properly with the driving dog.
From what you say, you seem to have a different problem. Is it possible that someone has removed too much metal from the distributor base, so that it is now projecting too far down into the housing, causing everything to bind when the dizzy is tightened down?
Perhaps not, because your post indicates that there is an alignment problem. If so, is the dizzy a slack or tight fit in the bore of the housing? Also, with the Bosch dizzies, the male dog at the bottom is free to slide slightly cross the centre line of the shaft to assist fitting, but is restrained by some sort of wire snap ring. Perhaps jiggling that dog before re-inserting it into the bore might help? (Once inserted it should self-centre.)
Dick Morbey
PA/PB 0743
Henley-on-Thames, Oxon, UK |
Edited by - DickMorbey on 07/07/2012 11:56:12 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Forum Locked
Topic Locked
