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Wyn Lewis
United Kingdom
153 Posts |
 Posted - 07/07/2012 : 12:04:05
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Dick,
Both my engine builder and Barry have come to the same conclusion (independantly) and it will need some CNC work to correct the alignment problems. From what I undersood, it seemed to be OK until everything was tightened up, which I guess is what you would expect from an alignment issue. Thank you anyway for your advice in trying to reolve the problem
Wyn |
Edited by - Wyn Lewis on 07/07/2012 12:07:14 |
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Fred Boothby
United Kingdom
364 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2012 : 16:59:35
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| May I add a little bit ? I fully agree with McEvoy . Any prospective owner should go to a race meeting and speak to MMM runners for advice on who built engine / chassis etc . Then the right names will come to the fore. Last month , at MG Live , I had 30 minutes racing and 20 minutes qualifying pulling 6700 rpm down the hanger straight whilst trying to catch the C type Midget of the chap that built my engine , and not a second thought that I might , at those revs , be covered in a shower of reciprocating parts . The car has been racing for 4 years now , with only s slight seepage from the head gasket . Superlative work . Thank you so much , Fozzy . Long may it continue . ( Usual fee ? ! ) |
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Wyn Lewis
United Kingdom
153 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2012 : 17:10:21
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I have received so many emails over the past 24 hours. All are reassuring in the fact that I know I am not alone, but equally, sad to read that so many people suffer at the hands of people who make themselves out to be Triple M experts. I received one message in particular this afternoon that touched me deeply and I would ask this member (who has been involved with Triple M cars for over 50 years) if he would consider also forwarding a copy of what he sent me to Dick Morbey as Dick requested in his earlier posting. To be fair to the Chairman, I suspect that he has not received the messages I have and I will not send any on to him (as some have suggested) as I respect the members who have bothered to contact me. Things will not change unless we, as members, all pull together and ask that it does. I may have gone a little OTT and I apologise to Dick in particular for this (who has always helped me whenever he can) but I wear my heart on my sleeve and if I believe someone is hard done by, I'm not frightened to say so whether it's me or anyone else. I'm fortunate that I can recover financially from this, legal case or not. many may not and have to give up which I find as sad as I do appaulling.
If something is done to applaud and compliment good service, then the reputable suppliers and specialists will benefit from it and the dregs will find themselves where they belong, at the bottom of the pile and it's up to them then to make sure they don't stay there.
Regards
Wyn |
Edited by - Wyn Lewis on 07/07/2012 17:25:22 |
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Bob Grunau
Canada
290 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2012 : 14:14:43
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Just to let owners know, this problem is not unique to the UK. I have an NA engine that was very expensively rebuilt at a cost of over $40,000.00 US$ and the owner supplied the parts. Now to be fair, this did include removal and replacement of the engine in the car and getting the car running.
HOWEVER, some of the problems encountered were:
1-Rod shell bearings were made up of six pieces in each rod, yes, four quarter shells were installed inside the two main shells in new Phoenix connecting rods. All held in place by a liberal coating of JBweld. Unbelieveable!!
2-New cylinder sleeves leaked water into the oil sump, solution, slather JBWeld all over the lower sleeves inside the sump to slow down the leaks. Sadly, didn't work.
3- Some head studs were bodged using 3/8" NC threads in the original block.
4-generator flex plate bolts sheared after a few hours running.
5-Throttle would only open about half way due to incorrect location of arm on carb shafts.
These were the immediate problems , net result, I had to buy a new block and completely rebuild the engine.
Can't name the offender here, located in north East USA, but if I receive a telephone call, will advise name.
Bob, Canada
905-274-4136
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spitfire
United Kingdom
371 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2012 : 08:07:42
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For the record...
I removed the Morris 8 diff postings, as I'm sick and tired of the whole affair.
Like Wyn, Bob et al, we just want the "problems" out the way.
The "problems" seem to be those treating MMM owners as people with more money than sense.
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F0355
South Africa
298 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2012 : 19:58:24
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There was a similar 'name and shame' incident on another forum I subscribe to where there were plenty of forum members supporting the idea of naming and shaming the alleged perpetrator. Unbeknown to all, the alleged perpetrator's wife was a member of the open forum and it all went pear shaped for the chap who named the offender after a court ruled he had to make a public apology etc etc bringing a lot of shame to the innocent man despite the mess up that has been made to his vehicle at huge financial loss, so be cautious of naming anyone on an open forum no matter how guilty they may or may not be.
Peter Steyn
Johannesburg, RSA
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bahnisch
Australia
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 11:43:41
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| I have have been a "victim" once or twice but sympathise with the "perpetrators" too. The trick is to talk to owners who have had work done and go from there. It is easy to "muck-up" and I wouldn't be too hard on people (or firms) that do! It is not easy, you know! Machining one-offs is a dying art? |
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talbot
United Kingdom
718 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 15:25:27
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It's easy enogh to visit a machine shop and look at their facilities and work in progress but what about smaller jobs such as chromium plating. I live in Scotland and most of the platers who advertise in "our" magazines appear to be sited in the Midlands. To visit them could double the price of a job.
Jan T |
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spitfire
United Kingdom
371 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 09:41:56
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Jan and I have discussed this "Go and chat to someone" reply when a question is posed.
For some it is not easy at all, for a myriad of reasons.
If the specific knowledge you require is "out there", (and we are all in the same boat)
Why would you have to travel two hundred miles, stand in a field or pub, introduce yourself and steer the conversation to what you are hoping to solve.
Why not ask the assembled owners here?
Life is full of experiences, that with anothers' perspective are effortlessly ironed out.
Much of what WE are doing is sourcing what we need, trying to focus on the best way to look after our car(s).
As Wyn says, The problem was when it was tightened.. Better not say too much or he'll come and give me a clout! A specialist "should" have an overview of "how it ALL goes together."
I can see the reason that The Club never used to involve themselves with Specialists.
The Club was PART of The Factory network, in Cecil Kimber's time, up until the 1970s.
Isn't there a logic in assembling a seriously large list of Specialists with the Services they offer?
Owning an MMM car doesn't mean you are magically transported to the midst of the Black Country, Surrey to Abingdon triangle, where you can meet the gang.
This will be seen as me criticising the club...but it isn't. It points out a more harmonious relationship for all, potential, MMM owners. Where ever they may acquire their cars.
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Edited by - spitfire on 06/09/2012 20:41:12 |
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Ian Bowers
United Kingdom
941 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 10:21:09
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I have held my peace on this one up to now, since the subject seems to give rise to such strongly felt and understandable concerns, on one side, of the 'publish and we will be damned' officers and members. And of the 'but we need to be able to draw on the collected experience of the contributors' on the other side.
However it is my understanding from a fair amount of research (but I would be happy to be trumped by a professional legal authority, which I am not) that to say 'Boggins is incompetent', or 'Boggins is a crook' leaves many people, both the writer and publisher open to being sued for libel. If this happens then there are heavy implications to the moral and financial welfare of those sued, who would have (expensively) to demonstrate in a civil court that, on the balance of probability, their statements are factually correct.
However if I say 'in my opinion Boggins is incompetent and did a rotten job' then there is no libel since I am free to hold and publish my personal opinions, however outrageous or plain wrong.
On this basis the careful presentation of the writer's opinions on the subject would be of a great help to all.
But, and it is a big BUT, if anyone abuses the freedom and fails to couch their words carefully, then the very expensive risk remains. You may think, therefore, that silence is the least worst option.
Ian Bowers
OD 6791
J3 3772 |
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talbot
United Kingdom
718 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 11:10:48
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We recently had problems with a firm of kitchen specialists that were supposed to fit a Corrian worktop in our kitchen - they simply didn't turn up - twice. I thus looked up the Rated Tradesman site, as advertised on the TV. After registering, a couple of tradesmen emailed me and provided references, pictures of their work and contact numbers for former customers. We gave the work to one and he did a first class job. We were then asked to provide feedback on his service and work. I am certain many readers will have done the same with hotel selection sites. I suspect, though, there aren't enough MMM potential customers to make it worthwhile for suppliers and the like to register for a MMM only list but include T Series and MGAs anf that's a different matter.
Jan T |
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Martin Warner
United Kingdom
85 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2012 : 09:55:57
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I have let this subject pass until now as I find it depressing and I don't like to be depressed. I had terrible trouble with my engine after spending a lot of money with.... dam I can't quite remember their name at the moment but I am sure it will come to me. It is possible to destroy a businesses reputation in a moment whether justified or not and forums such as these make it all the easier. It is likely that some mud will stick despite the strongest defence from the named protagonist.
Anyone who has been in business knows that we can all make mistakes but it is how you rectify those mistakes that is the standard that a company should be judged by. While I struggled to resolve the issues with my engine it was returned twice to the persons that built it. Both times I was blinded with science and my naivety, charged considerable amounts of extra money and went away hopefully only to be further disappointed. When I finally complained (and I only complained once) I was greeted with considerable aggression. The final words being "I am bored with this conversation. If you think you can find someone who can build your engine better than us you had better go and find them" and the phone was put down on me.
I immediately found someone who was better! They quickly found an obvious but fundamental problem and the engine is now excellent. I would say that the problem with the original engine builder was a triumph of arrogance over ability. If they had bothered to doubt their own infallibility they could have found the problem themselves and I would still be singing their praises.
I am not arrogant enough to think that my naming them would destroy their business but if they had acted in a more reasonable and thoughtful fashion I could have given them a lot of free advertising. Do they care? I think not.
Martin |
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3677 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2012 : 11:15:29
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Readers of this Forum won't be surprised to read that this matter has been exercising the Triple-M Register committee very considerably - most recently at our meeting last Sunday.
Following earlier postings on this website Forum and information supplied directly to the Register, we have built up a detailed file of complaints that have been brought to our attention. This will be discussed with senior MGCC management, hopefully next week. The reasons why this needs to be dealt with at this level are many, including:
1. The identified problems are not confined to the Triple-M Register
2. Even if they were so confined, the Register is an integral part of the MGCC and as such a co-ordinated approach and response would be desirable
3. The matters to be addressed include amongst others reputational issues, how best to support members, the impact of the law including that relating to defamation and the use of this website and the duty of the Club in listing suppliers/traders whose services are then found to fall short of expected standards. Above all, establishing an environment of fair dealing within our community so that people's expectations can, as far as possible, be met. This is particualrly so in the case of newcomers to the scene but, as others have indicated, established and knowledgeable Triple-M enthusiasts need to have the same assurance and confidence about the service they too can expect to receive.
This is a most complicated and difficult subject to address. Neither the Register nor the Club can intervene directly in disputes between supliers and customers, but nor should we stand aside when wrongdoing is perceived to be happening.
Please bear with us while we continue to address these issues; be assured, we have the interests of enthusiasts at heart, but must also be mindful that our community is highly dependent on services and supplies provided by a wide range of traders, the majority of whom serve us fairly and well.
Dick Morbey
Chairman |
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spitfire
United Kingdom
371 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2012 : 15:43:11
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Arrogance over ability, chimes out Martin.
I managed to publish my first six months with my J2.
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Edited by - spitfire on 07/09/2012 15:44:14 |
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John James
United Kingdom
963 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2012 : 18:42:31
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Just a few comments:
Martin is so right when he says that it is how a company rectifies mistakes which is the standard that it should be judged by.
Dick says that "Neither the Register nor the Club can intervene directly in disputes between suppliers and customers".
I am a little rusty since I re-wrote the introduction to the MGCC Trade Directory and I have not been an MGCC member for nearly three years now, but I thought this was provided for 'in extremis'. Indeed, I recall one well publicised dispute when the Club's General Manager tried to arbitrate between a member and a T-Type Trade Directory supplier, which was not successful and led to the supplier ceasing to advertise.
Finally, just a tip for your insurance renewal: I received by far and away the best quote from Hagerty when I renewed the insurance on my PB this year and friends to whom I have recommended Hagerty have without exception found the same.
JOHN JAMES www.ttypes.org
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