| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
spitfire
United Kingdom
371 Posts |
 Posted - 12/07/2012 : 16:16:31
|
Based on a misunderstanding on NeilC's thread, where Andrew thought I meant doom and gloom...
I meant to suggest the notion of The MG Car Company at ABINGDON Works, as a BUSINESS, being a totally INDEPENDENT.
Both financially,
and able to reinvest in its own ideas and development.
 What future would have opened up if Hubert Charles and Kimber had built up a niche in the marketplace and on the track with the likes of the R type?
Leonard Lord effectively stifled the development of the company.
It became predictable, and charmingly old hat until the lines of the MGA.
Even if Cecil's untimely death occured in the same train, what strides forward would have been made by MG between 1935 (The R type) and 1939, outbreak of war. From 1930 to 1935 it had certainly made its mark with the Magic Midgets and the K3s.
My friend's father liased with BL on supply of electrical components.
On one visit to a test track he was shown the NEW MG going through its paces.
That MG became the TR7.
I don't know if Mike Allison has any background on that?
MG was hogtied from the boardroom of the BMC in lack of investment, badge engineering, development.
I seem to remember that even when Abingdon Works shut down, talk was always of "It takes too much engineering to develop an open topped car." A sort of fatalism pervaded the marketplace here.
So the Japanese created a "fusion" of open topped sports cars (even created the right exhaust note) and pumped out loads of British Racing Green MX5s!
|
Edited by - spitfire on 12/07/2012 16:53:23 |
|
|
JMH
United Kingdom
913 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 16:44:35
|
Left to it's own devices pre-war, MG would have gone bust & I don't think there's many who would dispute that. Kimber was always going cap in hand to Nuffield. Glorious engines producing more bhp than anyone else maybe, but just not economic.
They would have gone the same way as Butler-Lacey & the rest.
JH |
Edited by - JMH on 12/07/2012 16:47:23 |
 |
|
|
JMH
United Kingdom
913 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 16:50:54
|
| bhp per litre I should add, not total. |
|
|
|
spitfire
United Kingdom
371 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 17:20:32
|
So what was their popularity? I was looking at a 1935 Singer at the weekend, not far off a P type. I find the MG lines more concise.
Did MG get sales through producing cars that didn't cover their costing? (Prime UK trait)
Could it only survive as a shared parts bin exercise?
A fair few MGs didn't get registered until around a year after production. Did they over produce then?
The marketplace can be fickle..
It is like the Airline styling. We see them as beautiful now, but this died within a year as being too excessive a change in styling, for many.
|
|
|
|
Blue M
United Kingdom
1474 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 22:12:58
|
I wrote to Thatcher at the time she was allowing the closure of Abingdon. She replied that her advice was that there was no future market for open sports cars so there was no future for Abingdon. How anyone could like the woman is beyond me.
Ian |
|
|
|
Oz34
United Kingdom
2570 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 23:39:51
|
I think there was a possibility that consideration was given to badging the TR7 as an MG; I've never heard that it was originally intended as an MG & was then sold as a Triumph instead. Thank heaven it was!
As to MGOC yes, it may well be responsive to it's members needs. Don't however tell me that the secretary hasn't benefited somewhat from the business he created. Well done him. I think Terry's point may have been that no one in the Car Club has benefitted financially from their association.
Dave |
|
|
|
spitfire
United Kingdom
371 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2012 : 10:34:46
|
Hi Dave, The TR7 story may well have been someone not completely in the know pointing the car out..but this seems odd as I discussed this with Wally.
He mentioned it to ME through my MG links. He was a Triumph fan/owner aswell!
I'll zip you a message offline re the last part, as I did yesterday with Allan.
|
Edited by - spitfire on 13/07/2012 10:35:33 |
|
|
|
John James
United Kingdom
965 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2012 : 11:23:27
|
"I think Terry's point may have been that no one in the Car Club has benefitted financially from their association".
Oh, really! |
|
|
|
McEvoy
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2012 : 15:32:29
|
Spitfire and others who bemoan that the undoubtedly forward thinking of the R type could have carried on into a successful production vehicle and be sold at a competitive price into the market during those pre-war years are to put it mildly viewing life through rose coloured specs. The investment to achieve this was far beyond the MG finances. I seem to recall reading maybe in an earlier Year Book an article showing the company balance sheet at the end of 1935 and it showed a parlous situation.
I'm probably as enthusiastic as anybody over the R type saga but I am realistic and lets just be glad Lord never went into Abingdon earlier or we might never have had all the Triple-M cars that we have.
Bob |
|
|
|
spitfire
United Kingdom
371 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2012 : 16:20:58
|
I'm glad you coined the phrase Rose coloured specs, Bob!
It was exactly the one that seemed part of the debate. I thought, If I use that "I" would have been seen as being negative.
With the depressed marketplace making the larger car sales fold up, it was probably the Midget that established "a seller."
Was it not Mercedes who bought one of the Magic Midgets in order to see "how it was done?"
Perhaps these cars were seen as the Mini Cooper of their day?
Something that could give a burst of speed and handle. It probably put a bit of pep into the marketplace.
To leave those rose tinted specs to one side... I find Cecil's life borderline tragic. He was a motorcyclist who couldn't really ride anymore, and produced a sort of cyclecar, with four wheels. It would have been fascinating to have known the man. The Need For Speed was definitely in his blood.
The story behind British Racing Green...
Where the English couldnt run road races like the continent, may suggest that the speed trait caused Leonard Lord to seperate Cecil and Hubert. The death of a racing driver on an unscheduled run probably proved too much for the men upstairs to handle.
Is there any sort of definitive book on Cecil Kimber's life?
I wonder if many people mourned Cecil's passing, especially at the height of the war?
We've all latched onto him now, and have placed him on a pedestal... Looking at that Singer at the weekend, and seeing how similar it is to the P type, right down to the windscreen supports...I wonder if Kimber was just seen as One of Many, designing motor cars? |
Edited by - spitfire on 13/07/2012 16:23:19 |
|
|
|
LewPalmer
USA
3251 Posts |
|
|
spitfire
United Kingdom
371 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2012 : 20:12:38
|
Hi Lew,
Yes. I've bought one already!
I went on the Net and this seemed to be the only book. At first all the copies were New York and priced up to £91. I got a new one. Second hand but still in polythene wrapping from Amazon £34.80 delivered to my door. Once again, I find the real enthusiasm lies offshore the UK!
Not a dig at the homeland and home clubs but I do find very focused and resourceful avenues into MMM matters ALL OVER.
I've just had a look at your link Lew. That IS cheap!!
Maybe someone else in the Register would like to jump on this ONE copy?
As yet I have found no reviews of it.
Lew...
When you come over... Could you bring some sun with you?! |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Forum Locked
Topic Locked
