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Rodney Green
South Africa
363 Posts |
 Posted - 16/02/2013 : 08:29:49
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Yes there does appear to be a "4" after the "266". I can view the car on sunday and confirm the "4" or not. Excuse the ignorance concerning the M, but would the chassis no still remain 266 ,and therefor be the 15th M to come off the line or would it be a much later car ? The licence papers indicate a 1929 first registration.
Regards
Rod
Rod Green |
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sam christie
United Kingdom
3104 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2013 : 08:57:11
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I think this car is genuine. Does the registration number match?
The apparent number 4 appears to be flat and in in the texture of the paint.The vertical line of the number seems to be a paint run which extends most of the way up the dumbiron. The stamped letters 226 by their highlights are clearly three dimensional.
Obviously the engine is from a much later M-type.
If the chassis number really is 2664 why would anyone bother to 'retrofit' the earlier inferior transmission braking system?
Would it be possible to see the dash and interior of this car? The instrument panel should look like this -
Sam |
Edited by - sam christie on 16/02/2013 08:59:53 |
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Rodney Green
South Africa
363 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2013 : 09:05:14
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Morning Sam,
Attached are 3 pics of the interior.
Regards
Rod
J2 3603
Rod Green |
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sam christie
United Kingdom
3104 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2013 : 10:27:41
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Good pictures Rodney.
The instrument panel seems to be the correct early pressing but it has been fitted with a set of black faced instruments appropriate to a later M-type Rotax instrument panel.
If under the black paint the instrument panel is chromed brass it is likely to be the original. The same pressing in steel with black enamel was fitted to the OHC Morris Minor .
You can see from the old picture below that the interior of 2M/266 is very much based on the original but the detail has drifted understandably, having been repaired and restored over the last 83 years.
Sam |
Edited by - sam christie on 16/02/2013 10:41:06 |
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sam christie
United Kingdom
3104 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2013 : 12:46:05
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By the way, would anyone have a larger version of this interior picture or know where I could find a larger copy?
Sam |
Edited by - sam christie on 16/02/2013 12:46:23 |
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talbot
United Kingdom
718 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2013 : 15:37:55
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I have several photos of chassis stampings and in all of them the numbers are in a straight line
Jan T |
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sam christie
United Kingdom
3104 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2013 : 21:04:52
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Rodney,I have attempted to send you an email.
Sam |
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Gordon
United Kingdom
692 Posts |
Posted - 18/02/2013 : 08:41:31
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The car that Rodney posted pictures of resides in the Casterbridge Motor Museum, White River, Mpumalanga, S.Africa.
I have inspected the knuckle carefully and can find absolutely no indication of the"4" that Lew drew our attention to. I attach my own photo.
Here is a photo of the engine number:
Gordon
PB 0331, MG4473
Derby |
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sam christie
United Kingdom
3104 Posts |
Posted - 18/02/2013 : 09:48:49
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Clearly a replacement engine but nothing very unusual about that.
Sam |
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Gordon
United Kingdom
692 Posts |
Posted - 18/02/2013 : 10:18:50
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Sam,
In my ignorance please educate me! How do you know it is a replacement engine?
Gordon
PB 0331, MG4473
Derby |
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Blue M
United Kingdom
1474 Posts |
Posted - 18/02/2013 : 10:34:14
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Apart from the number, it looks like a large dynamo engine. I think with such a low chassis number it would have had the small dynamo engine. It is generally not possible to combine the large dynamo with early blocks.
Ian |
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sam christie
United Kingdom
3104 Posts |
Posted - 18/02/2013 : 11:21:31
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Gordon, it is only my opinion but.........
The engine number is in keeping with a younger M-type. This follows simply from looking at engine numbers in different M-types. As production of M-types entered the thousands so too did the engine numbers.
The earliest engines started with numbers in single figures numbered separately from the chassis but presumably starting with number '1' . The evidence suggests that engines were fitted only in rough numerical order and presumably some were sent out to agents as replacements and never actually fitted in the factory.
My guess is that engine number 2496 is more in keeping with a car built in the first quarter of 1931. If it was possible to know that 2496 was not fitted to a chassis in the factory, then I would deduce that it was probably supplied as a replacement in the early months of 1931 following the demise of the original very low numbered engine fitted to 2M/266.
Does anyone know at what point in the production process engine numbers were applied?
By the way my wife read the above and commented with conviction "Sam, you really are an anorak".
Sam |
Edited by - sam christie on 18/02/2013 11:29:36 |
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Gordon
United Kingdom
692 Posts |
Posted - 18/02/2013 : 14:33:05
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Ian,
I agree with you that it looks like a large dynamo.
Sam,
Thanks for sharing your opinion - it was most helpful. I will see if there are any records that can give us a clue as to when the car received the engine.
Gordon
PB 0331, MG4473
Derby |
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Enfield Allday
United Kingdom
47 Posts |
Posted - 18/02/2013 : 19:57:30
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Firstly, can it be confirmed by anyone that all M-type ch. no's prior to 999 were stamped by the factory as 251 thru 999 on both guarantee plate and dumb iron without the digit Zero prefixing tho ch.no.and that the Zero given in the MMM Register is a spurious digit introduced by the typing/computer, (for which we are all indebted to the Register pioneers) All M-type ch. no's are ,of course preceded by 2M or CM.
There are serial no's on parts which can be used to date M's (given that others are known on other cars), rear axle & front axle (stamped top face centre)and speedometer. The LHS bonnet hinge flange should be stamped at front end with ch. no. & colour code (e.g. R=red).Rotax (some) and all Lucas starters and generators are stamped with month & year of manufacturete, also dated are later Lucas distributors.
Some of the above detail might not be known to the South African members.
Furthermore the chassis files for M type often have the Works History Card in the ch. file,which gives all serial no's for components.
Is tere an M-type engine no. book preserved in MGCC library? |
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sam christie
United Kingdom
3104 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2013 : 09:40:19
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Ian Grace has made a simple but profound observation on the Vintage Minor Register Forum about the often repeated article of faith that '251' was the telephone number quoted for Abingdon and M-type chassis numbers were based upon it. It says 'Abingdon 251' on the Abingdon chassis plate and that proves it?
But didn't M-type production begin at Oxford where the telephone number quoted on the chassis plate was 2241? It says 'Oxford 2241' on the Oxford chassis plate.
As Ian puts it -
But isn't the story that chassis started at 251 because that was the works telephone number? How could this have been? Shouldn't they have started at 2241?
Is this blasphemy? But how did the people at Oxford know the telephone number for the Abingdon factory in March 1929 when they began to number the M-type chassis?
Sam |
Edited by - sam christie on 04/03/2013 16:12:55 |
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