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gordclark
Canada
170 Posts |
 Posted - 23/09/2014 : 01:51:11
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I am probably a bit too optimistic, but I am hopeful that anyone reading this thread, might find something to add. I'm not a member of the MGCC so I haven't inquired of them. You can see that there is one big blank period:- 1934 to 1964. Here's what I know, so far, and I'm not the least sure of the dates. Correspondence with Terry Baldock was not confirming.
May 1934, PA0921 consigned to Carling Motors in Ripley, Surry
May 19, 1934 - first owner - Mrs D. E. Hersey
1934 to 1964 - unknown
1964 - W.C. MacKay - registered BPG 296 with MMM Register #392
1964 (approx.) Victor Dolden (dec.) - Ilford.
1965 (approx) Edna Stevens - 2013 still living in Ilford
1965 (approx) Tony Balcock - Ilford - 2013 now living in Harlow.
1967 (approx) Sold to unknown. Car was collected by two chaps who were members of the MGCC
1967 - 1973 unknown
Last tax on record = Essex Cty 1972 or 1973. Kithead Trust stated that Essex Council archived the file Oct. 1975. File not available.
1973, BPG296 was exported to the US. Exporter and new owner - unknown.
1974 Fred Ganshaw (dec.), Milton NY. Registered in NY state - NY 71 DAX
1986 - Richard Danzer - in New Hampshire - NH 60405D
2009 - Gordon Clark - Rockburn, Qué.
Any and all tips - gratefully received.
Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
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LewPalmer
USA
3244 Posts |
Posted - 23/09/2014 : 02:38:18
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Both Barry Walker and the Bone brothers keep (kept) pretty extensive records of sales. Although Barry W. didn't get started until around 1968 or so, an enquiry to either Barry W. or Terry Bone might prove useful.
As a side note, it could be immensely useful if either or both of those gentlemen could document and make public their files, at least as far as date of purchase and sale, and seller and purchaser of cars that passed through their businesses. Obviously, other details of their transactions should remain private.
Lew Palmer
PA1169, PB0560 |
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gordclark
Canada
170 Posts |
Posted - 23/09/2014 : 05:26:37
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Thanks Lew.
Frankly, I've spent a lot of time chasing this one. Your ideas are well worth pursuing.
Gord Clark |
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MaGic_GV
United Kingdom
868 Posts |
Posted - 23/09/2014 : 10:34:46
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According to my files Balcock should be Baldock, and Ganshaw should be Granshaw...may help naroowing some things down!
Regards,
Graham
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gordclark
Canada
170 Posts |
Posted - 23/09/2014 : 17:33:49
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Graham,
Nope Baldock is correct. I've exchanged a number of e-mails with him (twbaldock@gmail.com) and got the two owners previous to him, but dates are quite dubious. He's lost track of them. Interestingly, he did a major restoration by putting the car on stands at the curb in the streets of Ilford, including removing and refurbishing the tub. Most of the roughness of the car as it was when I got it, must have followed him. That's why I'm anxious to find some owners in that blank, 30-year period.
And Ganshaw too is correct. I've been in correspondence with his widow who sent me some pictures from the mid 60's.
Gord Clark |
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gordclark
Canada
170 Posts |
Posted - 23/09/2014 : 18:09:38
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Apologies Graham. You were of course correct with Baldock. I withdraw my 'Nope".
Gord Clark
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MaGic_GV
United Kingdom
868 Posts |
Posted - 23/09/2014 : 20:42:23
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I'm only quoting from the notes wot I inherited!
Regards,
Graham
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gordclark
Canada
170 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2014 : 01:21:51
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Graham,
Trying to research the heritage of my PA is a super time-waster and I'm not really sure putting all this time into it, is worth my while. I'm grateful for your contribution. As I indicated you are correct about the name Baldock. In fact, and despite being unsure of dates, Terry Baldock has been exceptionally useful. He's provided me with important information on the original engine and why I now have a replacement Morris engine, and provided information regarding the alloy side panels.
I would suggest however that your notes may be in error. I have been in both e-mail and telephone discussion with the wife of the late Fred Ganshaw, and she sent me some pictures of PA 0921 from the mid-1070s. From there on, I'm OK. Its that dastardly (a Nigel Setwright favorite) period of 1934 to 1964 that eludes me.
I found my communications with the Kithead Trust and the Essex DMV quite frustrating. I KNOW that these records weren't destroyed and probably exist, but bureaucracy rears its ugly head and I suspect the issue is more one of 'bother' than policy.
I have a bro living in Kensington and often visit him, but at 82 travel is becoming more and more of a hassle. So I plan to do some of my research in the form of footwork, sometime mid winter (Stoneleigh) or early spring. I hope to invoke a more personal effort including another visit to Abingdon. Living some 5,000 miles away, has its drawbacks.
I have also e-mailed Barry Walker. I hope he remembers me, I bought some bits from him in 2006. Anxious to see what (if anything) he has to offer.
Many thanks for your contribution. While its didn't exactly set the world on fire, I am nonetheless very appreciative of your interest. Every little bit helps.
Best,
Gord Clark
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Nick Feakes
USA
3376 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2014 : 12:42:36
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If either Barry or Terry (or anyone else out there) is willing to provide the sort of information suggested by Lew, rather than simply publish a list I will create a searchable database that we can add to so that future generations can search for information about a car.
Nick
Webmaster |
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gordclark
Canada
170 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2014 : 17:30:52
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Great idea Nick, providing these chaps will cooperate. Over the years, I found several MMM cars that aren't shown in the book, but I know that they are indeed, identified by the register.
That's a great offer providing the data is in cellular form. I written several dataBases from scratch (Foxbase Pro for DOS) but if not, it involves parsing from text, a skill with which I have great difficulty.
... will be interesting to see if it pans out.
Gord Clark
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Edited by - gordclark on 25/09/2014 17:34:31 |
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MJM20
United Kingdom
111 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2014 : 18:18:04
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I am happy to help were possible with my dealership research, I am finding snippets of information on cars which I believe have not previously been know to the register.
Thanks
Matthew |
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gordclark
Canada
170 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2014 : 19:51:56
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I have always been a curious bird. I believe dataBases to be very useful. I have written dataBases for several organizations, all, at no cost, including a very small one for the 45 Triple M MGs in Canada.
The information can only be useful when it is presented in cellular form (so it can be sorted). So if we are going to establish a dataBase, it should not conflict with one already in existence. I don't know what form the (MMM) Register uses. It may be a bunch of "index cards", or a book comprising hand-written records. Neither of these options are particularly useful as they usually imply an enormous amount of manual hand-writing - indeed, a super time-waster.
The Register "Catalogue" of Triple M cars, seems to do an admiral job and appears to already be in cellular form. The only thing I can see that would benefit us, would be to release the dataBase as a digital file and this presents a whole bunch of new problems - too long to go into in this message.
Despite your and Nick's offer, I think we should best define the purpose of a new dataBase, before we plunge in.
Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué. |
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Cymber
United Kingdom
966 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2014 : 20:54:50
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Gordon,
Is the Morris engine a Morris Ten Series MM XPJM?? If it is it may be the one I saw in London in 1959 it apparently had a TC camshaft and went very well. Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the owner or the area of London.
Maurice Blakey. |
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3677 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2014 : 21:42:59
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This is a fascinating thread and perhaps I should hesitate before leaping in, particularly as this is the territory of our Registrar, Graham Arrondelle.
Nevertheless people may not be aware that the Triple-M Register (by which I mean 'the organisation' not the 'printed annual listing of cars') maintains detailed records containing comprehensive information about each and every Triple-M vehicle that is known to us. That information will of course vary in its sparseness or abundance dependent on what has been disclosed to us. The data is/are held electronically.
Most of the information we hold has been based on declarations made by the owners, supplemented by other information obtained by the Registrar from past owners or from other enquiries.
Each year a digest of the information is generated using the Oracle relational database tool.
This annual digest - the annual listing of cars - is available from the Register Library in printed or electronic form. The information it contains is necessarily limited, and is restricted to certain key details, i.e. chassis number, engine number, registration number, the name of the latest registered owner, the Country where the car resides, the date of the most recent change to the Register for that car and finally a brief note of any matter of significance concerning that car.
How we work: The Register is governed by guidelines which can be seen at http://www.triple-mregister.org/registerlogin.asp These include the rather formal-sounding statement that "Any member of the M.G. Car Club Ltd who is the owner of a listed Triple-M car may discuss the classification of their car with the Committee."
Just taking the above and Gord's point a bit further, in fact the Registrar is always happy to receive factual information from anyone concerning any Triple-M car as our aim is to gather information together about surviving cars (and even deceased ones) for the benefit of present and future owners. Therefore I would encourage everyone who has relevant information to impart to contact Graham Arrondelle so that we can incorporate these details in our database.
It occurred to me on reading this through that it might seem a bit defensive – but it isn’t supposed to be. We have been at this since 1961 and continue to explore ways to develop the Register. Of course we have to be mindful about protecting personal information about living persons – the Data Protection Act and all that – but within reasonable bounds we are happy to receive, and where appropriate share, information within this enthusiast community.
From the above you may perhaps agree that having already invented the wheel there is no need to create another one, but we are certainly very open to collaborating with the fraternity with the aim of getting as complete a picture as possible.
Dick Morbey
PA/PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK |
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MaGic_GV
United Kingdom
868 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2014 : 10:13:08
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Hi all, I will add a small rider to Dick's note above. We do have some good records, not all of which have made it onto disc, and much of it requires detective work to interpret! This is largely because what makes perfect sense to person A as he collates a series of letters, emails, telephone conversations etc. is nothing like so obvious when person B comes to read it!
I have a selection of cards too, which also are somewhat limited and only referred to in extremis!
Also, though I get to hear of cars for sale, often I do not find out where they have gone until some time later - in some cases several owners later. Recent contact with Sweden resulted in a number of quite old updates!
This means although I have the names of some ex-owners, the list is by no means complete, and in any case I cannot put them online, though I see no reason why I cannot pass what I have on to current owners. (apart from addresses - but I will pass on your interest and let folk contact you if they wish)
The upshot is I think there may well be room for a thread where folk request further histories of their car - contribution would be voluntary and no-one would need to reveal anything they consider inappropriate. For my part I would pass on anything that is in the published register, and anything else selectively!
Regards,
Graham
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gordclark
Canada
170 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2014 : 05:53:06
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I certainly see Dick's point of view. Moreover, having more that one iteration of a dataBase can be deadly. Each person with a copy, makes additions and changes unique to their own situation. Before you know it, you have dozens of iterations of the same dataBase, but now, all are different and worse, there's no longer a Master.
I do think however, that perhaps now might be a good time to change the category "Seeking Information about a Picture" to "Seeking Information About an MMM MG", as I frequently see an entry from someone looking for information on a MMM MG that is not shown in the Register book.
Meanwhile, I plod on with my mission ...
Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué. |
Edited by - gordclark on 27/09/2014 05:55:53 |
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