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Tony Dolton
United Kingdom
372 Posts |
 Posted - 16/08/2015 : 08:22:21
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Anyone following the Bugatti situation regarding Argentinean copies will know the pre 1972 car market as we know it is under threat.
One of my J2's has no documentation of any sort post war,is not a matching numbers car and has no original bodywork.
How do I go about ensuring the car can be legally used on the road before incurring at least 20 grand restoration costs.
Is anyone in the MGCC handling this issue which no doubt effects many members.
Tony |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6137 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2015 : 12:22:44
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There is apparently a meeting next month between DVLA and car clubs to try and clarify things. It would be good to know if MGCC will be participating.
Simon J
J3437 |
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Richard Hardy
United Kingdom
2159 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2015 : 16:07:32
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One of the proposals I believe is that the car will be treated as having an age relating to its most recent main component. This includes a replacement body and applies to those cars to be put back on the road. If the last major component was fitted more than 25 years ago then the car would be exempt from the new proposals.
Again, one of the proposals which was, or is, being discussed related to the original registration being taken away and a new prefix plate being assigned. There was (is) even talk about a requirement being to grind the old chassis number off the car and for a new chassis identification number to be issued.
I do hope the MGCC are already heavily engaged in providing maximum representation on behalf of its members. Is the MMM Committee able to confirm the current status of affairs?
Rich
Vintage MG Parts |
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leafrancis14
United Kingdom
323 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2015 : 16:51:27
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I've seen this referred to as "something that affects all classic car enthusiasts".
No it doesn't. This is simply about what can be defined as 'historic' i.e. a genuine artefact.
Nothing to be concerned about if you have or restore a genuine car that looks and goes as it did when it left the factory. At a guess that's more than 90% of us.
There's exhaustive discussion on the A7 forum.
Barny Creaser
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6137 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2015 : 17:05:50
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There is a lot of misinformation out there in the ol' interweb! And stories of genuine cars having their original chassis numbers ground off and having a DVLA issued VIN stamped on them are assuming the proportions of an urban myth being variously attributed to Austin Sevens and Frazer Nashes
The !proposals' are to to be found on the DVLA web site and have been in place for quite some years - see https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/overview
What seems to be new is their tighter enforcement.
Simon J
J3437 |
Edited by - Simon Johnston on 16/08/2015 17:07:06 |
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George Wilder
United Kingdom
91 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2015 : 17:28:33
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The MGCC is fully aware of the current matters concerning the DVLA and age related registration.
The V765 scheme was set up in 1990 by the DVLA with the support of the FBHVC on behalf of the clubs.
The MGCC is a major member of the FBHVC - in fact its chairman is a MGCC member.
The MGCC is aware of the 3 hour seminar planned to brief clubs being held in Swansea in September.
The MGCC Triple-M Register Chairman is fully briefed on the current situation as far as real information as opposed to speculation is known.
Simon J sums it all up - looks like tightening the rules.
George MGCC Director
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Edited by - George Wilder on 16/08/2015 17:29:13 |
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John James
United Kingdom
963 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2015 : 17:37:03
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Further to Simon's e-mail there is a meeting being held in Swansea on 23rd September. All Clubs were invited to attend in a letter dated 21st July from John Vale, Team Leader, Vehicle Registration Policy.
I shall be attending on behalf of the MG Octagon Car Club and its members will learn of this in the latest issue of the 'Bulletin' due out shortly.
With regard to Tony's comment that "the pre 1972 car market as we know it is under threat" I don't believe this to be the case for genuine applications. What I do believe in is that it is important to uphold the integrity of the system and I only support applications about which I can be sure beyond reasonable doubt are going to get through. I'm afraid that cobbled together vehicles must go through the 'Re-constructed Classics' procedure and, picking up one of Richard's comments, in these cases the vehicle takes on a new identity (a modern VIN) which the applicant must take to an appropriate garage to get the chassis stamped.
The DVLA is much maligned but I have always found them to be extremely helpful as instanced in one recent case where I managed (with a bit of persistence) to get them to agree to a reclaimed registration (TAF 258) on a TF (a proper TF, that is).
However, that helpfulness seems to have evaporated into thin air of late due to the Bugatti situation and I currently have six cases in limbo which now need to be independently inspected by a company by the name of SGS http://www.sgs.co.uk
SGS are hardly a charitable institution so will charge for the inspection, writing the report of the inspection and travelling expenses. DVLA, who are 'under the cosh' may well want to pass SGS's costs on to the applicant.
Ever the optimist, I'm confident that we'll get back to normality in due course, albeit more stringent 'normality' so I suggest you pay scant attention to scare mongering.
JOHN JAMES (DVLA representative for the MG Octagon Car Club) |
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George Wilder
United Kingdom
91 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2015 : 17:56:10
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John
Saw a friend today who has just had his Morgan inspected by this firm.
No cost, no problems just a check of couple of numbers took 15 minutes.
The Morgan by the way had been owned since 1973 by my friend who, when contacting the DVLA when it started, was given a letter confirming his registration and that he was the car's keeper. As he moved since then they decided to inspect as he has just applied for a V5c some 31 years later.
George |
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O.Thomas
United Kingdom
755 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2015 : 17:59:59
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| I've had my old F type(in new ownership now) inspected by them as well. No cost either. Oliver |
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Tony Dolton
United Kingdom
372 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2015 : 18:11:37
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Thanks everyone,but I'm not sure I'm any the wiser!if I restore the car which competed in the 1939 Cotswold trial,and build a new body,when I apply for a V5 and hopefully the original registration no,I could be told the car will be treated as new,because of the body!that would eliminate it as a road car.no point in spending the money if my fears are in any way valid.
I'm not scaremongering,just after the facts. Tony |
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graham3647
United Kingdom
448 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2015 : 18:23:02
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I agree with Tony, after all that has been said and lots of it very useful information. It still remains that if someone is rebuilding a car now. Where do they stand when deciding whether or not to spend large sums of money on their cherished project? Me included.
Help,
Graham. |
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John James
United Kingdom
963 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2015 : 18:46:21
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The TF referred to earlier had been in a garage for over 40 years along with two other old cars. The old chap had died and no documents could be found for any of the cars. I asked his daughter if perhaps an old tax disc could be located and sure enough there was one in an oily condition in the car's tool box showing the car's registration TAF 258). I sent this to DVLA knowing that a tax disc on its own was not sufficient evidence but at the same time knowing that the application was genuine (I had seen a photo of the car standing in the garage showing the registration TAF 258). The DVLA turned down the application but I went back to them. They had another look at it and turned up an enquiry from 1973 from the old chap about getting the car on the road but he never followed it up (presumably the car was on the road previous to the old chap's ownership). However, there was sufficient evidence to link the tax disc and the car with the old boy's (now his daughter's) ownership and BINGO we had a result.
The current fee for an age-related application is £55 - this would hardly cover SGS's expenses let alone DVLA's costs so whilst there may not be a fee at present I find it hard to believe that in the current climate things will remain the same. |
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Oz34
United Kingdom
2542 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2015 : 18:50:13
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Might there be any mileage Tony in trying to acquire an old J2 body to restore rather than building or buying a new one?
Dave |
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Tony Dolton
United Kingdom
372 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2015 : 18:55:19
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| Yes Dave,when I know precisely what's required I feel confident there will be a solution.tony |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6137 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2015 : 19:10:42
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Where does the notion come from that a new body on a Triple-M car would result in it not being able to be registered with either its original number or an age related one?
Simon J
J3437 |
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Tony Dolton
United Kingdom
372 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2015 : 20:12:22
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Simon
The notion comes from the possible redefining what historic means.one definition requires all major components to be original or largely original,chassis engine gearbox,and body.given Brussels is no doubt driving this,anything is possible.we have to believe common sense will eventually prevail.Tony |
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