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Hugh
United Kingdom
75 Posts |
 Posted - 16/07/2017 : 16:23:17
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At a recent gathering I attended in my J2, an elderly gentleman showed me these most interesting pictures. He asked if any of the cars are still in use, or known to exist.
An article on Cyril Paul may be found in 'Motor Sport' of May, 1980. This gives some history, and a picture of an M type at Brooklands.
If anyone manages to read the 'Used Car Bargains', please could they reproduce the list in a response. Thank you.
Hugh
J3091
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Edited by - Hugh on 16/07/2017 16:58:25 |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6474 Posts |
Posted - 16/07/2017 : 17:47:17
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The C Type, AZ 7852, is Belfast registered, probably late 1931 or early 1932 as the AZ numbers finished in November 1932. A quick look through the Hawke History doesn't show any C Types with a Belfast number however.
Simon J
J3437 |
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John James
United Kingdom
991 Posts |
Posted - 16/07/2017 : 19:32:20
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C0259 is recorded as "Exported Ireland 1931" in the 1993 Triple-M Yearbook.
MG 1383 = F0292
JOHN JAMES
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6474 Posts |
Posted - 16/07/2017 : 20:58:03
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quote:
Originally posted by John James
C0259 is recorded as "Exported Ireland 1931" in the 1993 Triple-M Yearbook.
Indeed it was exported to the Irish Free State, but that wouldn't have given it a Belfast number 
Simon J
J3437 |
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Mike the M
United Kingdom
485 Posts |
Posted - 18/07/2017 : 22:55:55
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The picture of the M type in Motor Sport in May 1980 is a real mistery!
If it is the J. C. C. event of the 5 July 1930 them MG number 35 is C. G. H. Dunham in TM 5050, but in that event C. A. Paul in th eWindsor was number 53 in a different class.
However, if it was the Light Car Club event of 26th July 1930 then the MG was driven by the Earl of March as number 35.
But in that case I do not have the number of the Windsor of Cyril Paul.
Does anybody have a 1930 copy of the LCCC magazine that may give the answer?
Mike Dalby |
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ANDY KING
United Kingdom
321 Posts |
Posted - 20/07/2017 : 00:48:55
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Amongst copies of news articles I have archived whilst researching 1929 MG M Type TM 5050 driven by C. G. H. Dunham, I have found the photograph as shown in Motor Sport May 1980. It is held within the LCC&C 1 August 1930 edition reported under notes.news.&.gossip.of the.week. Given the date and photo commentary shown below, it would support Mikes previous posting that it could be the Light Car Club event of 26th July 1930, with the Earl of March ( Number 35 ) and C.A. Paul (Number 7 ) at Brooklands.
"In the Grand Prix final, the Earl of March ( M.G.Midget ) and C. A. Paul ( Windsor ) at speed on the banking."
Angie King
2M0262 |
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rossstephen
United Kingdom
9 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 13:15:26
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Disappointingly, I cannot find evidence that this is the racing driver Cyril Paul's premises in these wonderful photos.
It would appear that they belong to Cyril ALBAN Paul who was a motor trader according to a bankruptcy notice in the London Gazette, 8 November 1938. Adverts also show CA Paul's other premises in London and Manchester.
The racing driver Cyril JOHN Paul, was brought up and lived in my house I discovered from another bankruptcy notice in the London Gazette, 19 February 1932.
I attach a photo of CJ Paul with his MG C type at his ‘garage and engineering works at Finchley for high-class tuning’ in 1932 before working for Brooklands Motor Co in Euston. His trade plates on the vehicle were 161 MO. You can see a MG service van in the background.
Does anyone know where exactly that was in Finchley, London?
I'm updating a booklet about CJ Paul and can send you a copy if you want.
Is it a coincidence that they both sold/serviced MGs in the 1930s, both were bankrupt? Could they be related?
S A Ross |
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Cathelijne
Netherlands
746 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 14:44:10
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The car in your photograph, Stephen, shows C0253 and was owned at the time by J.R. Jeffress. C.J. Paul, the professional racing driver, drove it for him in the 1932 Ulster TT when he formed a team with Major A.T.G. Gardner (C0256) and Hugh Hamilton (C0279).
However, I don't believe the picture was taken at Paul's premises, but rather at the M.G. works in Abingdon. To support this view, I have several other pictures of the same moment showing Gardner's car, Gardner himself and Eddie Hall 'discussing tactics' for the coming race or so it looks anyway. I also have evidence that both C0253 and C0256 were worked on by the factory for the 1932 Ulster TT and so will have been at their premises. I also have another photograph in which Paul is seen driving C0253 with the trade plate 161 MO past the town hall in Abingdon.
His obituary in a 1984 Brooklands Society Gazette mentions he was involved in the motor trade in the 1930s, partnered by Pat Fairfield who was killed at Le Mans in 1937.
From the 1980 Motor Sport article on C.A. Paul, amateur racing driver, I've learned that he ran his business from Ealing, somewhere only a stone's throw away from the Windsor Car Works (at 236a Lancaster Road, Notting Hill Gate, London, W.11.), which is where the first three photographs posted by Hugh will have been taken. Perhaps someone cleverer than I am with Google Streetview and more acquainted with London, could have a go at finding the place?
I'd be very interested in obtaining a copy of this booklet you're speaking of, please.
'Hope this helps!
Cat
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rossstephen
United Kingdom
9 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 15:41:11
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Thanks Cat - you have solved some mysteries.
Yes, it makes sense the picture is at the MG works in Abingdon.
So - there were 2 Cyril Pauls!
Extract from the London Gazette: PAUL, Cyril Alban, trading as C. A. PAUL & CO., 51; The Mall,-Ealing, Middlesex. MOTOR CAR DEALER and REPAIRER.
I guess I will never find a photo or address for C.J. Paul's Finchley workshop...
Any C.J.Paul photos are welcomed - I have most of the Bill Brunell ones I think.
Yes, I will send you the booklet when I finish it.
Many thanks
Stephen
S A Ross |
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Vitesse
United Kingdom
234 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 15:45:57
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| Phone book records show that CA Paul was situated at 51 The Mall, Ealing. The shop building is still there and is now a branch of an estate agent called Rolfe East. The shop frontage hasn't been changed, apart from inserting a central pillar in the main window and even the mullioned windows and signboard are still there! The larger building and pub on the right of the first photo have been demolished, although the ground floor of the new building still seems to be a pub, with offices above. The 'car sales depot opposite' has also gone and is now an office block. Postcode is W5 3TA. |
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Cathelijne
Netherlands
746 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 15:50:57
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Have delved a bit deeper and found that the pic of C.A. Paul's premises was published in The Light Car & Cycle Car of 25 November 193? and according to the caption shows 'ANCIENT AND MODERN - an interesting array at the showrooms of C.A. Paul, The Mall, Ealing. The cars, from left to right, are a Montlhery Midget, a 1903 50 h.p. Napier, an M.G. Magna, an 1898 M.M.C. Daimler and a 1933 J.1 M.G. Midget.'
To establish what year it's from, I can tell that also on the page is a piece on Paris considering implementing a speed limit, practically being 'the only city left in France where there is no speed limit for cars.' Now, if anyone on here knows when this was done, we might be able to date the Paul photograph. Failing that, does anyone know on which day of the week the Light Car was usually published?
Also, Stephen, I take it you are familiar with the interview Cyril Posthumus had with C.J. Paul in 1982 which was edited by Tony Hutchings for a 1996 Brooklands Society Gazette?
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Cathelijne
Netherlands
746 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 15:54:35
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Brilliant things, these phone books!
If you drop me an email, Stephen, I can then email you directly with some attachments.
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wiggy963
United Kingdom
69 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 16:08:10
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| Is the left foot slipper in the photo of car number 31 a result of a malady inflicted by an MG, or is it simply a case of too much Port and Stilton ? |
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Vitesse
United Kingdom
234 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 16:09:06
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quote:
Originally posted by rossstephen
Disappointingly, I cannot find evidence that this is the racing driver Cyril Paul's premises in these wonderful photos.
It would appear that they belong to Cyril ALBAN Paul who was a motor trader according to a bankruptcy notice in the London Gazette, 8 November 1938. Adverts also show CA Paul's other premises in London and Manchester.
The racing driver Cyril JOHN Paul, was brought up and lived in my house I discovered from another bankruptcy notice in the London Gazette, 19 February 1932.
I attach a photo of CJ Paul with his MG C type at his ‘garage and engineering works at Finchley for high-class tuning’ in 1932 before working for Brooklands Motor Co in Euston. His trade plates on the vehicle were 161 MO. You can see a MG service van in the background.
Does anyone know where exactly that was in Finchley, London?
S A Ross
The 1930 phone book has an entry for 'Cyril Paul & Cattermole' at Dollis Park, London N3. Phone number Finchley 4051. No building number, so possibly near the Regents Park Road junction? Most of the road called Dollis Park looks like 1930s suburban housing, but there's a modern development called Dollis Mews which might be the site. You might find more clues in an old Kelly's Directory. What appears to be Cyril's home address is in NW9.
I don't think there's any connection between the two. It appears that Cyril Alban Paul was actually born - and died - in St Albans. |
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rossstephen
United Kingdom
9 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 16:57:07
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Thanks all - most useful additional material.
Yes, I assumed an attack of gout was the reason for the slipper!
The address in Dollis Park N3 is likely to be as you say what was a yard and garages years ago - still a yard and now offices near the main road.
I think he moved from N3 to NW9 when he became bankrupt.
I have quite a lot of interesting material to sort through as I took several photos when I visited the Brooklands archive to access CJP's driver's file.
S A Ross |
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kimber
United Kingdom
1530 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 19:06:35
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My late-father was acquainted with Cyril Paul (the one standing next to the C type in the above photo). I was therefore not entirely surprised to find these two little silver dishes amongst dad's belongings.
The dishes are are identical and identically inscribed:- Speed Event 28th July 1923 C. Paul. The Scottish Western Motor Club Limited.
I have not been able to find out anything about the event, the club or the awards.
Anybody?
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C A Paul & Co cars
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