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powerplus
United Kingdom
599 Posts |
 Posted - 10/01/2016 : 22:40:40
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I am trying to find details of the early life of PA 0530 and any subsequent information which might be available to assist in its restoration.
Records at Abingdon show that chassis PA 0530 was completed on 21/3/34, together with its engine no. 782AP, and exported in unassembled form by Morris Export Industries. Unfortunately the export destination was not recorded.
Triple-M cars were exported to US and Australia, and in small numbers to certain other countries.
Subsequent to its export, PA 0530 returned to UK, at least 40 years ago, and is now incomplete but its chassis identity is clear.
In an endeavour to trace the history of this car, I would greatly welcome any relevant information or photographs that would help in leading to creation of a picture of its life and eventual restoration.
In hope,
Powerplus. |
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Andrew Fock
Australia
374 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2016 : 02:31:51
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Hi Alan,
In the 1930's Lanes Motors of Melbourne were the official importers of MG (unassembled) they were then sent to Britannia Motors who had them Bodied (usually by CFS Aspinall & Sons). We have the so called "Lane's List" of cars that were imported and PA 0530 does not appear on it. However, a small number of cars were imported directly into Sydney and Adelaide so it might still be an ex-Aussie car. I will chases up some old versions of the register to see if it appears on any of them. Do you know when it returned to the UK and what sort of body it had?
Warmest reagards,
Andrew
PA 1294
NA 0279 |
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Andrew Fock
Australia
374 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2016 : 10:12:35
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Hi Ian,
There is no record of PA 530 on the Australian register in 1979 (one of the earliest published).
I also note that it is not on my copy of the MMM register (2012)
regards,
Andrew
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Edited by - Andrew Fock on 11/01/2016 10:13:28 |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6119 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2016 : 10:20:09
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Andrew,
When you refer to cars arriving in Lanes Motors unassembled, were they literally what we'd know in later years as CKD (Completely Knocked Down) or were they simply in rolling chassis form for which Aspinall built the bodies?
Simon J
J3437 |
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powerplus
United Kingdom
599 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2016 : 14:27:23
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Hi Andrew,
Many thanks for your reply and your assistance in searching the records for PA 530 - much appreciated
As a point of clarification I used the word 'unassembled' to embrace your imports both as 'chassis only' and ' kits of parts for assembly as a complete car'.
Please let me know if any information on PA 530 turns up.
Alan
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Andrew Fock
Australia
374 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2016 : 21:02:58
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Hi Simon,
As far as I'm aware, the cars that came to Australia were as a complete chassis, with instruments, bonnet and lights included but not on.... so not quite how the MGAs and MGBs were sent over (they were complete with all parts but partially assembled). However , I think they were referred to as CKD. Interestingly, the P types that were sent over this way have the chassis number stamped on the nearside dumb iron rather than the offside so it must have been known that they were to be exported on the assembly line.
Some cars received bodies to local design while others (such as NA 0677) received a copy of the standard factory body. A very few cars such as NA 0279 were imported complete for special customers.
Andrew
NA 0279
PA1294 |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6119 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2016 : 21:29:22
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Thanks, Andrew. Were the engines and gearboxes installed when they left Abingdon? When TFs were exported CKD to Ireland for assembly by Booth Brothers the engines were apparently shipped quite separately and thus the engine number couldn't be stamped on the guarantee plate until an engine had actually been selected and installed. What happened with the guarantee plates for the Triple-M cars?
Simon J
J3437 |
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Andrew Fock
Australia
374 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2016 : 01:00:46
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Hi Simon,
We believe that they were full rolling chassis with engines, firewalls and radiators. The guarantee plates appear to be stamped at the factory and we have engine numbers assigned for each chassis.
The attached photo shows the guarantee plate for PA1291 which is 'missing' although the dumb iron recently turned up. The plate was mounted on the firewall that came with PA1294...... which appeared on the register as PA1051!
regards
Andrew
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6119 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2016 : 09:34:35
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Hi Andrew,
That's very interesting as what you describe is what one would ordinarily take to mean a 'chassis only' export, i.e. completely assembled apart from a body. This is very different to post war CKD practice where they really were Completely Knocked Down. Terminology is everything!
Simon J
J3437 |
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MaGic_GV
United Kingdom
868 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2016 : 15:00:30
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I can confirm that although I haven't checked every car, on those I have looked at both CKD and chassis only cars have an engine number allocated,
Triple M Registrar
Regards,
Graham
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6119 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2016 : 15:43:39
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Graham,
Was the term CKD used in factory documents in the 30s, and if so, can its use be distinguished from the use of the term chassis only?
Simon J
J3437 |
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gordclark
Canada
170 Posts |
Posted - 13/01/2016 : 05:03:05
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Don't know if this is relevant or not, but PA 0531 is owned by Bob Grunau in Toronto.
Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué. |
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powerplus
United Kingdom
599 Posts |
Posted - 13/01/2016 : 12:01:26
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Hi Gordon,
Thank you for your response.
Having seen PA 0531 listed in the Triple-M Register, I contacted Bob, thinking that P0530 and PA 0531 may have been exported to US together. However, Bob's car was exported to US some years after initial ownership in UK.
As yet, we have been unable to establish the country to which PA 0530 was originally exported, so any clues are very welcome.
Alan. |
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Bob Grunau
Canada
290 Posts |
Posted - 13/01/2016 : 15:20:02
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Just to clarify, PA0531, UK plate BME384, was imported into TORONTO, Ontario, CANADA in Sept, 1974 and has been in the Toronto area ever since. We are not part of the USA.
Bob, Canada
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George Eagle
United Kingdom
3237 Posts |
Posted - 13/01/2016 : 17:26:40
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From the chassis files I have seen at MGCC, there is only mention of cars being exported, often noted as being delivered to Morris Industries Export, Perhaps the term CKD was introduced post-war i.e. such as the TFs as noted by Simon.
Interestingly the chassis number on the cars exported to Australia was usually stamped on the near side knuckle as shown in Andrew's photo.
Bob - the door line on the P type looks non standard, some Triple-M cars with pre-war competition were modified in this way including 2 L2s. Something to do with easier access to the steering wheel?
George
L2023 |
Edited by - George Eagle on 13/01/2016 17:29:29 |
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