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Andrew Fock
Australia
374 Posts |
 Posted - 18/08/2019 : 01:03:48
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A friend has a P type chassis with a knuckle on it that has been damaged and the numbers are difficult to read. Is there any forensic method to "view" the number again. I assume this has been an issue on some of the K3s etc in there past
All help appreciated
Andrew
NA 0279
PA 1294 |
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KevinA
New Zealand
671 Posts |
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Ian Bowers
United Kingdom
942 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2019 : 08:20:22
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That really is a demanding process.
I would suggest using 'Fry's Reagent' - a solution of hydrochloric acid and copper chloride in an alcohol/water (available to buy on line).
This deposits copper at the boundary between unworked cast metal base and the deformed and hardened metal where the stamping was made.
Lightly abrade (600 wet and dry) any rust or oxide from the area where the stamp mark should be and apply the reagent by dabbing with cotton wool soaked in it. It may be necessary to lightly abrade several times. A shadow of the stamping should appear.
Ian Bowers
OD 6791
J3 3772 |
Edited by - Ian Bowers on 18/08/2019 08:21:10 |
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mgmog
United Kingdom
467 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2019 : 09:01:06
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Is that not a Right knuckle? ( looking from front - oops early)
Rich Stott
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Edited by - mgmog on 18/08/2019 09:10:12 |
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3677 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2019 : 09:15:32
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It’s an established fact that the cars which were supplied by the Works to Australia in a CKD form (but sans body) had their chassis numbers stamped on the nearside chassis knuckle.
Dick Morbey
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK |
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mgmog
United Kingdom
467 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2019 : 09:18:27
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of course, Cheers Dick
Rich Stott
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MaGic_GV
United Kingdom
868 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2019 : 11:23:30
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Might be a simple process of elimination, the numbers of exported cars are known...is there an engine present? Chassis looks like 138 and possibly one other digit...possibly 5?
Regards,
Graham
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3677 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2019 : 15:10:16
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It would be tremendous if his car was P(A) 1385 because this vehicle was indeed exported by Morris industries exports Ltd from new - perhaps to the colonies?
Is there any way in which we can get the story about this car, including the owners name, because we have nothing whatsoever in our register history about the car, other than the fact it was manufactured in the first place!
Dick Morbey
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK |
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Andrew Fock
Australia
374 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2019 : 08:19:39
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Thanks all,
We will give Fry's idea a go.
PA 1385 is not on my list of cars imported into Australia by Lanes though it is possible it came via another source.
This chassis came from the "Don Shinners" collection in South Australia which was sold off in the 1980's. The chassis has been cadmium plated (was thought to be chromed at one point).
Shinners claimed to have PA 1292 and PA 1459. PA 1292 was a very significant racing car and may have been sold off in his estate incorrectly IDed as 1295. We expected this chassis to be 1459. ..... but as can be seem that doesn't seem to match.
Andrew
NA 0279
PA 1294 |
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George Eagle
United Kingdom
3240 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2019 : 20:14:55
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I agree with Graham - the number looks like 138 and I think the numeral 5 is just discernible.
George
Registrar F/L/N types |
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Peter Green
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2019 : 22:03:32
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Or is it 158?
Peter |
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Andrew Fock
Australia
374 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2019 : 22:27:17
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Here's two more views from slightly different angles and light...
NA 0279
PA 1294 |
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sullivan
USA
423 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2019 : 23:51:47
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Hello Andrew,
While not a knuckle of a MMM.
This video goes through the detailed process of identifying numbers on an old relic revolver from the Custer Battle field. The man doing it is a jeweler and takes you through all the steps he uses to retrieve long worn away numbers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLwhVePvFeM
Hope this helps you get your numbers.
Best,
Brian W Sullivan |
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Westly P
Australia
12 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2019 : 06:00:25
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I would first consider borrowing a good camera with a macro lens. Under specific lighting this should give a clearer representation of the stamping and is a non invasive technique. The focus is past the stampings on some photos as it appears the lens you are using doesn't have the ability to focus very closely. Also if you light the knuckle obliquely this will increase the visibility of the slightly recessed stampings.
Etching would probably be the next method I would attempt. Here is a use of Fry's Reagent to uncover a TC chassis number -> http://ttypes.org/ttt2/pdf/TC3102.pdf
It may also be worth asking the police - they have methods (combination of x-ray and etching I believe) to determine stampings which have been removed from guns, etc. |
Edited by - Westly P on 20/08/2019 06:04:05 |
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MaGic_GV
United Kingdom
868 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2019 : 09:24:57
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Peter, it certainly could be a 5 in some images. 1380, 1383 and 1385 were exported, as were 1586 and 1587. More info/better pics needed! All seem to have had standard MG bodies.
Regards,
Graham
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3677 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2019 : 10:34:47
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Incidentally a single letter 'P' (or just possibly 'PA') should be evident above the numerals
Here is an example from another PA that was exported CKD to Australia from new.
Dick Morbey
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK |
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