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Colinladd
United Kingdom
114 Posts |
 Posted - 24/04/2023 : 17:00:32
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Has anyone got a large K3 sump, preferably magnesium, surplus to their requirements?
I know this is unlikely but any help appreciated! |
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Westbury
United Kingdom
2008 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2023 : 19:31:19
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Hello, Colin.
Sorry I cannot help but just watch out as two types have been made over the last few years. One to fit a K/L cylinder block and the other made for an N type block.
Regards,
Chris |
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Colinladd
United Kingdom
114 Posts |
Posted - 25/04/2023 : 11:18:58
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Thanks Chris,
I will need one to fit my N type block but don't mind some alteration work if necessary.
Cheers, |
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Gerhard Maier
Germany
873 Posts |
Posted - 29/04/2023 : 15:09:24
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Several years ago, Ron Grant owned and used my old K3-sump casting patterns.
Colin maybe you would have a chance to get such a sump cast for you, if you could find out where these patterns are nowadays.
Gerhard |
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Westbury
United Kingdom
2008 Posts |
Posted - 29/04/2023 : 15:53:05
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A good bet would be Andy King.( I had one of Ron Grant’s K type versions)
Chris |
Edited by - Westbury on 29/04/2023 15:54:27 |
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Colinladd
United Kingdom
114 Posts |
Posted - 29/04/2023 : 19:53:43
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| Thanks Gerhard - I expect the patterns are around somewhere - I'll keep looking as I'm not in a great hurry and can use my N type one to start with. |
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Phil Standish
United Kingdom
102 Posts |
Posted - 30/04/2023 : 20:05:39
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Hi Colin
I seem to remember when I was putting together my K3 kit of parts that the large K3 sump was less than ideal for a car intended for road use. Something to do with the oil staying too cool and struggling to reach its optimum operating temperature.
I'm sure someone with more technical knowledge than me could comment on this but it made some sense to me at the time.
Kind regards
Phil
NB Cresta 0934
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Nick Feakes
USA
3369 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2023 : 12:39:56
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Colin
There is an N-type sump for sale on the "Parts for Sale" forum
Nick
Webmaster |
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Gerhard Maier
Germany
873 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2023 : 12:37:32
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When the K3 came out, I believe very few of the slab-tank models were equipped with the large oil sump. At least I know that K3013 and also K3014 were originally equipped with the standard oil sump of the K models.
But the works-files show, that Abingdon was willing to upgrade the cars with a large oil-sump on customer request.
However, for long distance races, such as the Mille Miglia, it can be assumed that it was necessary to keep the oil temperature at a tolerable level. After all, the mountains of the Apennines had to be crossed, and on the last section of the thousand miles towards Feltre, the K3's touched the Dolomites.
Not to mention, Raffaele Cecchini was certainly very happy with the introduction of the large oil sump, when he won the class record and the Italian 1100 cc champioschip at Stelvio Hillclimb.
It was even found necessary, in exceptionally long races, to hang this large sump lower down into the airflow, and so some K3 engines were fitted with a spacer of one inch thickness.
Even today at longer club races, it can be advantageous to have the K3 equipped with the large sump, but in general the disadvantages will probably outweigh the advantages, as it is often very difficult to reach and maintain the required working temperature of the engine oil.
Also, it is fashionable these days to cut corners over the curbs, and there is often a risk that this large oil sump will be damaged by the hatched curb stones, especially if the spacer is fitted.
So basically it is more a matter of originality, if the owner of a genuine car decides to equip his car with the large K3 oil sump. Because from a functional point of view, there is rarely a reason today to make this often very expensive investment.
Gerhard
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Bruce Sutherland
United Kingdom
1564 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2023 : 13:40:58
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Gerhard, all,
Question:
What is the (recommended)/required working temperature of the engine oil?
Does this vary for Triple-M models, types of oil, and types use - i.e., road, track, etc.?
Bruce. (PB0564)
PS. Perhaps this should be a new/separate question in the Technical Forum? |
Edited by - Bruce Sutherland on 02/05/2023 13:43:21 |
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Colinladd
United Kingdom
114 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2023 : 20:35:37
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Thanks everyone for helping with the information - very informative & useful.
I have a normal N type sump which fits the engine & will probably use it & see how it goes. I was really thinking about the K3 look but don't want to add even more weight in case I want to do anything competitive!
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Westbury
United Kingdom
2008 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2023 : 21:44:29
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Hello, Colin.
I think, if truth be told, practicality aside, there is no doubt the large K3 racing sump looks incredibly good!
Chris |
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Richard Hardy
United Kingdom
2159 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2023 : 12:55:10
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Ron only made 4 pr 5 k3 sumps from his pattern. The main problem with the pattern was that the wall thicknesses were way over generous, leading to an incredibly heavy sump, so much so that one K3 rep owner advised me he had to use a trolley Jack to take the weight and install. It was for this for this reason alone I had the option but did not bother purchasing the pattern at the time.
A sump can be cast in Magnesium although the last time I looked into this for a simple P type sump, the foundry wanted £750 odd pounds just for a single raw casting!
Rich
Vintage MG Parts |
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Darkie
United Kingdom
19 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2023 : 13:19:21
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I have our own patterns, ex-P Gregory, for the K3 sump.
The price for Magnesuim casting machined is £3250.00 these are an exact replica with correct details and wall thicknesses.
If anyone would like one I would need to do a batch of 3 minimum.
Regards
Tom
TOM DARK |
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Westbury
United Kingdom
2008 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2023 : 16:11:29
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Hello, Richard.
You are correct in that Ron’s K3 engine sumps are very heavy. However, in every other aspect they are superbly made and faithfully replicate the original. I was able to buy mine as a casting for £335 and did my own machining so that the wall thicknesses to me is an irrelevance. I was and still am eternally grateful for all that Ron was able to supply to me as I am to you and other supppliers without whom half of our cars would never see the light of day.
Best regards,
Chris
P.S. With grateful thanks to Gerhard for loaning his K3 sump patterns to Ron. |
Edited by - Westbury on 05/05/2023 16:25:39 |
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Richard Hardy
United Kingdom
2159 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2023 : 12:13:31
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It is a shame Ron’s pattern maker (and I used him for a few projects myself) had some real problems with some aspects of careless detailing. Pattern corrections by others became often costly but had to be done.
The outer profiles on the sump looked generally ok, but wall thicknesses were the big problem with this particular pattern. At £325 and lots of machining work Chris, looks like you did ok compared to the new price on a magnesium sump!
Ron told me at the time that his pattern was produced by his pattern maker Bill, from copying a repro sump provided by Jack Smith, apparently not Gerhard.
Rich
Vintage MG Parts |
Edited by - Richard Hardy on 08/05/2023 12:24:19 |
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