| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Terry Andrews
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
 Posted - 23/03/2009 : 09:14:03
|
Old Restorers
In the 1960 to 1970s our cars were put back with what was available. The car books at the time showed pictures of cars and there was not the interest in originality as there is to-day.
Question. What is the consensus of opinion? Should the gearbox be painted the colour of the engine OR black?
regards.... Terry
|
|
|
tholden
United Kingdom
1638 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2009 : 09:53:29
|
Terry if you are referring to the actual gearbox casing then as far as the J.s and P.s were concerned I have works photos and there are also photos in various books which show it painted. These are all black and white photos but there is a clear distinction between the bellhousing and the casing which is darker so I assume it is black. I have also dismantled original cars where there has been some black paint remaining on the gearbox casing.
In one of my original chassis photos you can see that the paint is very poorly applied and is already flaking off so it probably did not last for long ! The bell housing normally was painted engine colour.
Having said that the published prototype J and L pictures show the gearbox casing unpainted but the prototype P and N pictures show it painted so there may not have been a clear pattern.
I dont think hardly anybody paints their gearbox casing these days. Most are left bare ali and I even saw one recently where the owner had polished the casing to a high shine which I thought looked all wrong.
TH |
 |
|
|
Bruce Sutherland
United Kingdom
1564 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2009 : 09:54:47
|
When re-building my PB gearbox I was advised by the erudite Mike Ellis - god rest his soul - that the aluminium housing should be unpainted (& polished?) and the propshaft output end casting be painted engine colour.
Bruce. (PB0564) |
|
|
|
DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3677 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2009 : 13:47:58
|
When I bought my PA in 1974 I was pretty sure that the gearbox was unmolested. The bell housing was red, the aly of the box was unpainted and the rear housing was black.
Regards
Dick Morbey, PA/B 0743 |
|
|
|
Terry Andrews
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - 25/03/2009 : 17:42:19
|
Thanks for the contributions so far.
Bruceā. You may like to know that Mike overhauled my original PA gearbox 30 plus years ago and said it should be painted black ā..and he painted the bell housing and rear casting Black! If you are listing up there Mike, make up your mind!!!!!
Terry Hā.. With my current understanding I totally agree with what you have said. But I have seen what Dick has said as well
So if the bell housing was engine colour, the aluminium case was black along with the rear casting. I expect the cheap paint soon came off the aluminium case and the black remained on the rear housing. How is this for a hypothesises?
|
|
|
|
Bruce Sutherland
United Kingdom
1564 Posts |
Posted - 25/03/2009 : 19:37:17
|
Terrys A & H,
Here's a nicely re-built J2 gearbox by Mike Ellis just before he helped me with mine .............. red at both ends ...... looks pretty.
Bruce. (PB0564) |
|
|
|
tholden
United Kingdom
1638 Posts |
Posted - 25/03/2009 : 20:40:07
|
Terry that is highly likely.
Bruce yes it looks very nice. I have several gearboxes here at present - they all look like that (red both ends ) but I dont polish up the ali castings.
TH |
|
|
|
DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3677 Posts |
Posted - 25/03/2009 : 20:47:26
|
And the vintage railway seat looks pretty good, too!
Regards
Dick Morbey, PA/B 0743 |
|
|
|
davies
United Kingdom
699 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2009 : 08:58:34
|
| plated / SS nuts? Tut Tut. |
|
|
|
Bruce Sutherland
United Kingdom
1564 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2009 : 11:55:04
|
"Plated / SS nuts? Tut Tut.".........ahhhhhh, originality!
I know it's personal choice, but I'm of the school of thought which supports the view that particularly where parts are not readily visible - in this case should be hidden by an original-pattern carpet - and where a natural unplated fastener is more than likely to rust, then taking advantage of modern materials or finishes - e.g. passivated zinc plate or stainless steel- is a rational choice.
Experience of completely dismantling the chassis and running gear with old badly rusted fasteners which, for one fastener alone could take several hours in the worst instances to remove, has prompted replacement with new plated or s/s parts.
Since we are only the temporal - or is it temporary - custodians of our Triple-M cars, making dismantling easier to the next generation of owners will surely be appreciated.
I rest my case.
Bruce. (PB0564) |
Edited by - Bruce Sutherland on 26/03/2009 11:58:06 |
|
|
|
mgtommm
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 31/03/2009 : 04:03:17
|
| Terry, the gearbox from NA0933 is still in its very original dark red engine color. Not a terribly tidy paint job, but absolutely red. I'll get fotos. tommm |
|
|
|
Terry Andrews
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2009 : 19:19:49
|
Hi Everyone,
Tom sent me a very nice old photo ancient red all over.  I think we can now put this one to bed as well. I think I will follow what most people do. The P type I restored 30+ years is becoming more un-original by the day  . I will blame Mike E who originally advised me and who must have changed his mind over the yearsāā regardsā.. Terry
|
|
|
|
sam christie
United Kingdom
3101 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2009 : 18:25:53
|
Just a point of originality -
Is it a little inconsistent to take great care to paint the cast iron parts of a gearbox in the original colour yet completely remove every trace of the original finish from the aluminium parts ?
Sam |
Edited by - sam christie on 08/04/2009 17:06:29 |
|
|
|
Terry Andrews
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2009 : 18:42:51
|
Hi Sam,
Yes everyone is inconsistentā.that is why I was trying to understand what was the factory spec? E.g. the 2 photos posted by Bruce are different one has a black driving flange the other has a red one. Also one has a black pedal and we seem to be saying that originally they were silver. The other point is that I was trying to establish what the original finish was. As I said before, once this has been established if I or anyone else decides to do things different that is personal preference but not pass this off as original if we establish it is not. With regard to the painted aluminium gear casing the original pictures Tom Metcalfe sent this was painted red. But because the surface was not etched the colour flaked off. I think if the gearbox is to be on show then why not show it either painted or plain? If the original style of carpet is fitted then it is not seen anyway. The engines seem to be spry painted and I have seen pictures with the sump paintedā.. When I did this people criticised me saying that they were never painted. I think they were but it came off very quickly just like on the gear box. As the engine was sprayed in one go I could go on about the dynamo being the colour of the engine another inconsistencyā. Then there is the inconsistency of the starter motor colourā.. but I think we will end this topic here as I am happy that I have enough evidence on the gearbox colourā.. thanks everyoneā. THE END!
Regardsā. Terry PS Samā when is you M type going on the road?
|
|
|
|
tholden
United Kingdom
1638 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2009 : 00:19:26
|
Terry I think there probably was not consistancy in as much as the finish of various components varied not only over time but from model to model.
As far as the J's are concerned original works photos from 1933 show that the gearbox casing was definately painted and although they are b&w photos you can see clearly that the shade is darker than the engine colour and the same as the chassis so I reckon it is black. A P photo from 1934 also shows the gearbox casing painted.
The J engine was as you say spray painted and it looks like this was done after assembly because the sump is painted as well as the swans neck oil filler and the main oil pipes. The paint is already flaking off the oil filler neck and gearbox casing in the picture and I doubt if it would have lasted for long on the oil pipes and sump. The dynamo is the same shade as the engine block etc so it is almost certainly red/engine colour. The heads of the dynamo bolts are unpainted which suggests the dynamo was painted before it was fitted.
In one picture the starter is the same shade so I assume engine colour and in another it looks like bare metal ( or cad plated ? )with just the cover band painted a dark shade - probably black.
These comments refer to original 1933 J chassis photos and as I say the finishes were probably different on other models and at other times in the Triple M production period.
So I dont think there is a definitive answer to your original question or to the dynamo/starter finish question but it has been an interesting exploration for those that are interetsed in such matters.
TH |
|
|
|
sam christie
United Kingdom
3101 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2009 : 18:16:06
|
Terry my reference to 'inconsistency' was in the context of what is to my eyes the 'customized' look which the J2 gearbox by Mike Ellis shows. I know it is a matter of taste but I feel that over 70 years of history has been ground off to make this gearbox shine as never before. In contrast to this efforts like yours to research genuine original paintwork are surely essential to remaining true to how these cars actually appeared when new.
Sadly for those who care, the pace of obliteration of evidence of original paint finish is probably increasing thanks especially to various forms of blast cleaning.
Regards...Sam PS Terry The M-type has been on the road since last year and is a delight. |
Edited by - sam christie on 13/04/2009 11:29:22 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Forum Locked
Topic Locked
