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PeterL
United Kingdom
1723 Posts |
 Posted - 02/12/2011 : 11:55:39
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Dear All
Years ago I attended a friend's cousin's wedding, the groom told me of his father's connections with SU. I have just reminded him of this and he has forwarded the following for me, I hope it is of interest. Oh, and he has sent a quick update as well...
Cheers
P
Dear Peter,
Many thanks for your lengthy and prompt reply. In about 1931, my father was working for AC who made mechanical petrol pumps, he left them as all basic design work was carried out in the USA.
He designed an electrical pump and managed to persuade Carl Skinner (who had started a firm with his brother (Skinner Union) to take him on. He worked for a year unpaid developing the pump. During this time Mr Skinner took on another developer John Morris, who wanted to develop his petrol lift. At this time as far I can gather many cars had the petrol tank behind the dashboard, a pump was not needed as the petrol was fed by gravity to the carburetor.
After a while Mr Skinner asked my father and his rival John Morris to work together and form a partnership for patents etc, further they were to become employees of SU. One problem that had to be overcome was that John Morris was being financially supported during the Petrol Lift's development by a friend who owned a lift making firm. He insisted that this friend become part of the partnership. At first The Petrol Lift looked the likely winner, but in the end my father's petrol pump was put into production.
The pump was as far as I can remember fitted to Morris, Woolsley, Riley and Rolls Royce cars. I remember my father anticipating a problem when it was to be fitted to MGs. If the owner filled the tank with 20 gallons of fuel it would be above the carburettor and the pump had no valves that would prevent the petrol going by gravity into the carburettor. My father remarked to me that they did not have a single complaint on this account adding that that was because no MG owner could afford 20 gallons of petrol.
Another story concerning the SU pump that may or may not be on record. Just before D day, my father had a military request to go to I think it was Lowestoft. A number of American landing craft were being prepared for the great day. Some could not be used as their Autovax fuel pumps had packed up. Could my father come up with a solution? "My pumps were designed for 12 volts. The landing craft were 24 volts and would therefore be under a 100% surcharge". They were fitted and not one failed.
My father designed the fuel injection equipment for the Rolls Royce Aero Engine. When the first three were completed, he got hold of some of the then rationed petrol and drove them up from Birmingham to Derby. He decided to take my mother, brother and myself on this rare outing. RR had high security, it was pouring with rain, and my father was told his passengers would not be allowed on the premises, but would have to wait out in the rain. His answer was that he would take the pumps back to Birmingham. They let us in!
My father told my mother when he married her in 1926 not to expect a too grand a life as he intended to save his money and retire when he was 50, this he did in 1949. During the 1950s Morris's developed the Mini. They were expecting it to be a good seller and needed a cheaper pump (PD) that could be assembled from cheap pressings. By this time I was working at SU and designed all the assembly tools for this pump.
Regards,
Robin
Dear Peter,
Back, just been re reading part of your letter, I had forgotten that the petrol lift had been in production. But one thing I have now remembered is that the financial supporter to John Morris for the Petrol Lift was Mr Scott who owned Marriot & Scott lift makers.
My Father told me of one occasion when he stayed with Mr Scott at his home in Surrey. In the morning his chauffeur drove into his firm's London premises to fetch Mr Scott's post. Returning to Surrey he would then drive Mr Scott back to London reading his post in the car. The chauffeur then returned to Surrey to pick up my father to drive in. Finally the chauffeur returned once more to Surrey to pick up Mrs Scott to take her into London for some shopping. I do not know what the chauffeur's evening procedure was!
Regards, |
Edited by - PeterL on 02/12/2011 13:17:08 |
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Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1487 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2011 : 10:27:49
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Peter,
This is a very interesting (and I think important) part of SU's history) and well worth keeping in our archives. I had always assumed that the Petrolift was a "first attempt" at supplying fuel to the engine under pressure, and was quickly superceded by the SU Pump when the Petrolift proved to be inefficient and unreliable. At this point, may I apologise to all the Petrolift enthusiasts in the World (yes, all six of you) for my remarks. It is fascinating to think that in fact, the respective designers of these two different solutions to the problem considered themselves to be rivals, during the early years of development. As it turned out, the SU pump in all of its variations over the years, has proved to be an important feature in vehicle design despite its tendency to burn out its contact points.
Thanks for sharing the story with us.
Colin B. |
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PeterL
United Kingdom
1723 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2011 : 21:21:39
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Thank you Colin
My informant is Robin Kent, I will ask him his father's christian name.
Cheers
P |
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Hornet
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2011 : 21:46:00
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| if the fuel pump had no valves it would make no difference , with valves the fuel will still flow through the pump . |
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PeterL
United Kingdom
1723 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2011 : 15:13:29
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Rather fine background info to this post in this letter from Robin Kent.
Cheers
P
Dear Peter,
You asked for a few words, regarding my father, Raymond Leslie Kent. He was born April 29 th 1898. His father had two small businesses, one making bicycles, the other a wholesale cycle business. One of his clients was Mr Morris at his Oxford cycle shop, later Lord Nuffield, who as I am sure you know owned MG .
This is a picture of my Father, at the wheel of a car built by his Father who is standing alongside. He must have had a keen interest in cars as I have a set of books with his initials and date on the cover. Incidentally they include an article on the SU Carburettor. It amazes me that it was around so early.
My father was at Merchant Taylor's School, then in the City of London. He became a freeman of the City Merchant Taylor's Company as I am. He then started an engineering course at The City and Guilds Institute but did not complete it because of the First World War.
He became a pilot in the Royal Naval Air Service, a period of his life that came to an untimely end when flying from Vendome in France. The engine valves of his Sopwith triplane burnt out over enemy lines in Germany; he did remark to me that a ploughed field was not the best place to land a light aircraft. At least 18 months as a POW allowed him to survive the rest of the war and become my dad!
When he was about 89 or 90, I drove him down to The Fleet Air Arm Museum at Yeovilton and with the aid of his old log book, the director of the establishment made a video, as Father spoke about his flights. I was sitting close by when at one moment Father remarked that he had three forced landings that particular day, I can still see the camera man shaking his head in almost disbelief.
After the war he briefly joined his father's firm traveling round the country selling bits and pieces to cycle shops. He seemed to spend much of the time in station waiting rooms waiting to catch a train to the next town. He then moved to Wolverhampton where he joined the Villiers Engineering Company that made small engines. There he met and married my mother.
In their early years (mid 1920 s) they built a small motorhome. They purchased a second hand Trojan van, removed the bodywork, built a new plywood body over a hardwood frame that they had steam bent to shape over the kettle in the kitchen. As you can see from the picture, they had a quite successful business breeding English Mastiffs. It must have been cramped in the motor home with those large dogs!
After a spell at AC Sphinx he joined SU Carburettors. The year before he retired, Reginald Hanks the then chairman of the Nuffield Organisation doubled his salary.
Cheers
Robin
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Edited by - PeterL on 06/12/2011 16:07:04 |
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PeterL
United Kingdom
1723 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2011 : 17:57:48
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Colin and everyone else
There was a bit of juggling with the height of the SU pumps in MMM cars. Is there a clue as to why this might have been in the story about MG owners not being able to afford 20 gallons of petrol?
"I remember my father anticipating a problem when the SU pump was to be fitted to MGs. If the owner filled the tank with 20 gallons of fuel it would be above the carburettor and the pump had no valves that would prevent the petrol going by gravity into the carburettor. My father remarked to me that they did not have a single complaint on this account adding that that was because no MG owner could afford 20 gallons of petrol."
Might it have been to do with gravity feed to bottom fed carburettor bowls whose needles were a little prone to sticking and might the lower position eventually decided upon have coincided with tehe introduction of the top-fed bowls?
Cheers
P |
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