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paul55
Luxembourg
732 Posts |
 Posted - 31/05/2012 : 15:27:50
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Does anyone have a photo of the dash layout of the Nuvolari lightweight K3. I am trying to base my replica on his car and need to know the dash / instrument layout.
Cheers,
Paul. |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 31/05/2012 : 16:50:53
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The car had what was known as a "Skimpy" body fitted, but was otherwise a standard car.
I think that they built a couple of skimpy bodies for the K3 (ER Hall had one with a long tail for the 500 mile race) a couple for J 4's Hamiltons car certainly and I think that Ernie Robb's car had one as well - but the majority that they made were for the 1932 C types when they ran the blown cars with a choice of the standard pointed tail or the skimpy.
The skimpy was a sheet of thin aluminium sheet (20-22 swg) stretched over steel hoops bolted to the chassis in the same place as the standard body mountings.
The guy in the body shop would then cut the section around the cockpit and strengthen it with a rolled wire edge and a pair of stiffeners behind the seats (probably from old pallets).
Then they riveted the aluminium to the hoops.
The aero-screens were mounted on wooden blocks (painted body colour) and screwed in place from underneath using woodscrews.
The whole thing would have been rather rudimentary (and temporary) and by modern standards very crude.
They then used the standard blower cowl, bonnet, transmission tunnel and made a rudimentary ply-wood cover over the rear axle (probably fitted to the floorboards at the front and direct through the body at the back into a piece of old pallet again like as not).
The dash would have almost certainly been a standard one - they had less than a month to prepare the car following another event.
The car was a "works hack" used for everything from racing to motor show exhibit from its build date to its sale to Bobby Kolrausch (when it had a standard coachbuilt body once again).
After the TT it was used to win at Craiganlet Hillclimb too!
My father was told by chief mechanic Reg Jackson that they did have a seat fitting for Nuvolari and that this included a non standard seat with taller sides (because Nuvolari was very slim).
The driver requested that the seat be mounted in a very certain position.
Hounslow (the riding mechanic) has a standard seat bolted direct to the floor - plus he was told to get down as low as he could too.
They did make quicklift jacks for both back and front wheels - these lifted the wheels free of the chassis and Nuvolari insisted that the shock absorbers be adjusted in a certain way too.
He also requested that they make a fuel filler funnel large enough to contain all of the fuel required - then Hounslow simply threw the churns into the funnel while he changed the wheels.
Honestly I think that it would be a far more comformtable car to ride in if you based the specification of your car on the Mille Miglia cars.
The coachbuilt body is stronger and more rugged - I honestly dont think that a thin aluminium shell will last long on the road before it starts to crack.
There is a LOT of folklore regards the specification of these cars - to be honest they were all pretty standard up until they were sold to private customers.
All of the "special" bits were fitted post 1935 after the racing shop closed and you could no longer buy the parts so easily.
That said a skimpy body probably saves around 55 kg over the coachbuilt body just because of the thinner metal skin and the removal of the wooden inner framework.
There are "experts" who argue all sorts of ideas regards the specifications of the cars - trying to prove fact from fiction and invention - but to be honest the reason why the number 17 car won the TT that year was Tazio Nuvolari himself and the fact that Hugh Hamilton made such a porridge of his pit stop. If Hamilton had done as he had been asked and had Henry Stone as his riding mechanic then a J4 would have won the 1933 TT :)
Regards David |
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paul55
Luxembourg
732 Posts |
Posted - 31/05/2012 : 17:00:40
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Thanks David, do you know if it has the hobson telegauges as per the 1933 K3's, or the extra instruments as per the later ones? Regarding Bobby Kolrausch, last month I reunited is Shelsey hillclimbe trophy with it's owner, it had been on extended loan to the Luxembourg MMM club! And a nice thing it was too!
Paul. |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 31/05/2012 : 18:54:40
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The Hobson telegauge was standard fitment on that car - as it was one of the 33 Mille Miglia cars (reputedly the Eyston car K3-003).
I think that they were deleted in 34 because they were too expensive - difficult to read? (the former probably more likely):)
Nice to hear about the Shelsley Trophy
Regards David |
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paul55
Luxembourg
732 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2012 : 08:38:09
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Thanks again David, given me some food for thought!
Paul. |
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Gerhard Maier
Germany
881 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2012 : 11:24:15
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quote: - but to be honest the reason why the number 17 car won the TT that year was Tazio Nuvolari himself and the fact that Hugh Hamilton made such a porridge of his pit stop. If Hamilton had done as he had been asked and had Henry Stone as his riding mechanic then a J4 would have won the 1933 TT :)
Or was this a kind of early "pit-order" ??
And the result was it worth in so far, that in racing history the name Nuvolari and MG got a relationship for ever !!
Gerhard |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2012 : 11:41:40
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Nuvolari and MG was more by accident than design.
The handicap was in fact balanced in favour of the J4.
Nuvolari had requested a chance to drive the MG following the class win on the 33 Mille Miglia.
He also suggested his doing so for a minimal fee - the fee was STILL a great deal of money for MG who were more used to entrants paying their own way.
However Kimber managed to persuade Lord Nuffield to pay the entry fee and Nuvolari's fee for driving.
The stories are now legend but Nuvolari was MUCH quicker than the other Magnettes entered in the race - ER Hall was astounded at how much faster (his car was to the same spec as Nuvolari's).
The increased pace allowed Nuvolari to put Hamilton under huge pressure and the J4 had to go much faster than intended to stay in position.
At the pit stop it was more like Fred Carno's Circus than a racing pit and the J4 was delayed almost 3 times longer than planned.
Nuvolari still had to drive like the wind to catch up the difference and both he and Hamilton broke their respective class records on every lap following the pit stop.
There were certainly NO team orders - Nuvolari was simply the greatest!
Reg Jackson told dad that what Nuvolari did with the car was simply astounding - the team were agast at the speed he managed to maintain.
Hounslow said that at no time during the race did he feel in the least concerned - it looked to him as if Nuvolari was at all times driving well within himself and could go faster if he needed to - he just doubted if the car was capable of going any faster.
Regards David |
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JMH
United Kingdom
914 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2012 : 20:24:59
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Although (& I'm sticking my neck right out here), perhaps the real reason that No 17 won was because Ron Horton had bad lumbago? Ron felt that he was faster than Nuvolari in practice, taking it easy on the faster sections so as not to show his hand too easly. His car had a "demon tweak" of step-up gearing on the blower, which had enabled him to lap Brooklands at 115mph with a std body! Then he was ill on the day. One of the great "what ifs"
JH |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 09:06:58
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I would have supported your idea Jeremy - if it wasnt for the fact that both Hall and Nuvolari went faster in the race and Nuvolari was about 20 seconds a lap faster!
Nuvolari had not driven the car before the first practice day - didnt fully understand the pre-selector gearbox and is own high opinion made a complete horlicks of teh occasion.
Come the race he was much better prepared.
I dont think that Horton and Hall would have really thought they were a match for the maestro.
Both drivers recognised that Hamilton was faster than they were and Hamilton was like everyone else in awe of Nuvolari.
Horton was a very quick driver but rather more a track specialist than a road circuit driver - Hamilton and Hall were always quicker than Horton at road circuits.
Interesting though that Horton always seemed to be fastest in practice even with the C types and then didnt seem to go faster in the race.
As you say my friend - a what if - but what ifs tend only to make history with the lovers of conspiracy theory ;)
Regards David |
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bahnisch
Australia
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 11:07:09
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| David, I know I have said this before but I always enjoy reading yours and your Dad's comments and history. We are a bit isolated down here but a friend owned and drove the ex-Bira K3 for many years and I actually had a memorable ride in it on one occasion! I have been an MG enthusiast for over 50 years and have, amongst others, an F2 Magna and an M-type (which I bought in the UK in 1993, drove it today!). |
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Gerhard Maier
Germany
881 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 12:09:45
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Concerning "Standard fitment of Hobson telegauges" for K3's, I hazard a guess that perhaps on none of the K3's the Hobson system was installed for the petrol tank.
On the works-photo below (K3006), a blind cover closes the opening on the top of the tank, where normally the Hobson tank unit should have been fitted.
Are there any K3 works photos which show the Hobson unit fittet ?
I know, they had the two oval instruments on the dash, one for the oil-tank and the other for the petrol-tank, but - - - .
Just an idea,
Gerhard
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JMH
United Kingdom
914 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 13:27:14
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There is a photo in one of the works publications I have, which shows a close up of No17 during a pit stop. That should show it clearly & maybe the dash layout too (if only I can remember where it is). Those 3 hinges on the body cross member are interesting.....
JH |
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Paolo Bordini
Italy
44 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 19:22:30
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Hi JMH
it would be nice to see the quoted picture of the Nuvolari pit stop, and any other Nuvolari picture when driving hard at the Tourist Trophy.
Thank you
Paolo Bordini
PB586 |
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Paolo Bordini
Italy
44 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 19:25:32
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| Sorry my PB is 589 |
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JMH
United Kingdom
914 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 19:35:18
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Paolo,
I had a look yesterday, but it wasn't where I though it was (too much stuff, too little time). From memory, it was in a booklet of the type that the factory produced fairly regularly pre war, covering various events or record attempts etc. I'll have another look in the next few days, meanwhile others on here may have their own memories jogged re the pic.
JH |
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philvwbay
United Kingdom
24 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 22:36:47
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| Page 59 MG Competition Cars and Drivers |
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