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Kts
USA
107 Posts |
 Posted - 22/12/2012 : 03:29:15
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A note on an entry form for an American concours of 2000 for the J2 I now own, says it won "First place at Silverstone Concours" in 1982. Does anyone know where to go to look up this type of historical info? I read the mmm yearbooks from 1981 to 1984, but saw nothing about concours. I am hoping to learn who owned J3459 then by finding this info. Any help would be much appreciated!
KTS |
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3677 Posts |
Posted - 22/12/2012 : 08:44:59
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Koke
This must have been the concours event open to allmodels at the MG Car Club annualmeetiing at Silverstone. I will try to find out from Kimber House whether any record of that event survives; it may take a while as the Main Club office is now closed for the Christmas holiday.
Dick Morbey
PA/PB 0743
Henley-on-Thames, Oxon, UK |
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tholden
United Kingdom
1638 Posts |
Posted - 22/12/2012 : 09:30:27
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I think I was one of the judges for the Triple M cars at Silverstone 82 - not 100% sure. I dont have any records of the event but if you E mail me a picture of the car it may prompt my memory !
TH |
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George Eagle
United Kingdom
3240 Posts |
Posted - 22/12/2012 : 10:33:43
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Hi Koke
Firstly welcome to the Forum.
I expect the concours entrants were listed in the MG Car Club race/events programme. I may have the programme and will check, but undoubtedly there will others out there who have the programme! I will also check my old Triple-M Registers to see if the car was listed in 1982.
You should also contact our Registrar Robin Hamblett who may have a record of previous owners - a name might ring a bell with Terry who may have been one of the judges!
George
L2023 and NA0960
Nr Buckingham, UK |
Edited by - George Eagle on 22/12/2012 10:34:53 |
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tonym
United Kingdom
653 Posts |
Posted - 22/12/2012 : 11:30:26
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To preempt Georges fire [sorry George] the car is indeed in the 1982 Register.
Reg GV1509
engine no. 20390AJ - must be a misprint as the car above in the register has 2386AJ as engine no.
MMM no. 2006
owner A Sparrowhawk |
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Kts
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 22/12/2012 : 12:42:26
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Wow, thanks for all the responses. What a great resource you all are, and what a great venue to have the forum available. I really appreciate all the responses!! Happy Holidays to all!
KTS |
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JMH
United Kingdom
911 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2013 : 12:43:00
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At the MGCC Silverstone event 1981 - 1983 no J2 with the reg. no. GV 1509 is recorded in either the official program, or results sheets for any of the possible 3 MMM classes (MMM, Premier & "Yesterdays Competitors") for the concours event. Mr Sparrowhawk was not an entrant in any of those years. The programs & results list entrant, car model & reg. but not chassis. All the J2s entered during those 3 years can be tied to known owners & chassis, with the exception of one. The car I cannot identify, entered in 1982 & 83 by Mr P Wightman carried the reg. PCW 1 (his own personal plate?) and looks very similar to J3459 (though I only have a B&W photo of PCW 1). Does anyone out there know which J2 this was/is? Even bearing in mind that the published MMM Register could be a year or so "behind the curve", even if new owner notified the Registrar, this may be a red herring as far as identifying the then owner of J3459 is concerned.
Yes, Terry was one of the judges, along with George E., my Father & other well known suspects during those 3 years.
However, I'm sure the MGCC would not have been the only club to hold a concours event at Silverstone in the whole of 1982. Back then, the Norwich Union Classic used to end there on the Sunday when we were still at the circuit and there would have been numerous other non-race events held.
JH |
Edited by - JMH on 05/01/2013 12:44:37 |
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JMH
United Kingdom
911 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2013 : 19:57:38
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From the 1984 Concours results (KTS found one of those little gold plaques they used to dish out):
I also scanned them for the Pre-55 race & HST for MMM content if anybody's interested.
JH |
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Kts
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2013 : 20:16:51
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Can't thank JM enough for his efforts, it's great to have such willing folks with access to material like this.
Thanks again Jeremy and to the all those who ask the questions and post replies, which makes this forum such a fantastic source!
KTS |
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JMH
United Kingdom
911 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2013 : 20:26:55
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And just in case anybody's wondering - those are the official results sheets - so professional back in the days of typewriters & pens!
JH |
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Kts
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 13/01/2013 : 02:25:32
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Just noticed anyone reading this thread who is not familiar with J3459's history will not know that Tom Fleming bought the J2 from a Mr. Sparrowhawk, who had registered the car as MMM 2006 in 1982 and offered it for sale in 1983 through "Classic Car". Thus Fleming entered the car in 1984, receiving 1st place in class 2 as verified in JH's result sheets previous. It was Fleming who wrote the Greenich entry from which I quoted in my initial query, wherein he was two years off from his own entry date. My finding the dated 1984 plaque gave JH the info he needed to find the car. JH pointed out that the entry listed J3459 as GU1509, rather then the correct GV1509, probably a misreading of a hand written entry.
So the long and short of this thread is I have learned the name of the second and third owners of J3459, and confirmed that it did indeed win a first in class at Silverstone, in 1984. Wonderfull!
Now, JH, or any one else, do you know if the scoring sheets are extant from that concour? I'd love to know where the car fell short in only scoring 907 (out of 1000?) !
Thanks again to all,
KTS |
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Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1487 Posts |
Posted - 13/01/2013 : 10:31:20
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As an aside to this thread, in the late 1990s or so, Albert Sparrowhawk was a well known and spirited driver in VSCC races, with his stripped 4.3 litre Alvis Sports. For a gentleman of mature years, he certainly drove his big car with verve and he was such an Alvis fanatic, that he even named his house after his car. Doesn't quite fit the profile of an owner of a concours winning J2, but the name is so unusual, it is very likely to be one and the same person.
Colin B. |
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Kts
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 13/01/2013 : 15:23:39
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Thanks for that last bit Colin. Every comment brings new information. In this case it's Sparrowhawk's first name. I knew the initial A, but now that's been fleshed out.
As an aside, Albert only bought the J2 in 1981. It had been stored by the previous (second) owner since 1939! And when Fleming bought the car in 1983-4, it had under 10,000 miles. So it must have been very compete and original when Albert first restored it in 1982. I know from the extant 1939 tax disc, which is still on the car, that the body had been repainted silver, but otherwise do not know how much of a job Albert had to do to restore the car.
The car also had restoration work done in the US in 1990 and probably was refurbished in 1999 or 2000. The 1990 work included an engine rebuild with a replacement block, I believe, and the work in 1999-2000 included a new top and full tonneau. Haven't found the side curtains yet, or the hand crank, but they will probably turn up. I bought the car from my brother, who lives just a mile down the road, and the missing bits are probably somewhere in his 3car barns, among a myriad of Porsches, an MG TC and F, a Dellow, several TR3s, a TR2 race car,a bugeye Sprite, a pair of hopped up off road jeeps, a model A p.u., and a 1930 Chrysler 77 roadster! Bits off almost all the cars, here and there with tools and other stuff spread around. The J2 had been languishing in a corner since 2001, shortly after he bought it from Fleming. Hopefully it will be back to running this spring.
KTS |
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Kts
USA
107 Posts |
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Kts
USA
107 Posts |
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Kts
USA
107 Posts |
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