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NeilC
United Kingdom
27 Posts |
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Peter Green
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
 Posted - 23/02/2013 : 17:42:24
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Neil,
Your assumption is correct.
Peter. |
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3687 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2013 : 17:44:53
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Yes, it's J3528 built up as a J4 'rep'.
The sellers's ad is misleading and I have contacted him.
Dick
PA/PB 0743
Nr. Henley-on-Thames, Oxon, UK |
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NeilC
United Kingdom
27 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2013 : 23:50:40
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| It's very annoying that dealers try to con people stating this is a J4 midget, Q3, K3 etc. Completely dishonest in my opinion. Nothing but fakes no matter how good they are. Should be clearly stated as replicas so there is no confusion. I wonder how many people have been taken in by such ads. For me as a learner in pre-war cars it's a bit of a minefield knowing what is real and what is a potential fake. |
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George Eagle
United Kingdom
3267 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2013 : 09:57:49
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The car is shown in the printed 2012 Tripl-M Register - chassis number as stated J3528, UK Registration JK3233, Register number 2049 and "rebuilt to J4 spec".
George
L2023 and NA0960
Nr Buckingham, UK |
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Onno
Netherlands
1071 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2013 : 14:56:43
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Neil
With so little of these models built (J4,Q and K3) it is easiest to assume all advertised are fake until proven real.
A bit like AC cobra's and GT40's all are fake until proven real.
With a printed register in hand most fake MMM's can be determined quickly (and even with out some are obviously wrong)
That only leaves some cars with debatable history who are hard to judge.
All is rather irrelevant unless you are trying to buy one.
Then real or repro is a difference that can add up to big numbers.
But does it matter when driven?
I'd rather drive a repro Q,J4 or K3 than have the real thing locked up in a garage/ museum.
But don't call it the real thing.
Best is still seeing the real thing go but that is up to the people with the budget to do so
Onno "D" Könemann |
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Volumex
Switzerland
17 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2013 : 16:35:15
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Hello fellows,
I'm completely agree with Onno on this. Drive them, race them, enjoy them but don't call them for what they don't are. Denomination rules of the register are pretty clear. Why people don't use those categories of the register ? In this case it's maybe more a lack of strictness than a real willingness to defraud. The seller specify "chassis J23528 (special)". It's unclear but I don't think the prewar MG amateurs will be deceived. |
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IanG
Australia
72 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2013 : 01:25:25
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I too have tried to be conned on this car. It is clearly advertised as a J4. As there were only 9 J4's built the first assumption it is not real. After the chassis number in the ad is in brackets "special".
It states J23528. Five numerals not four? The actual chassis number is 3528 & the J2 is stamped above the chassis number when you view the photo of the dumb iron.
Emails from the seller he says the car was born as a J3 then reissued as a J2. How can he say this, born as a J3? J3 chassis numbers started at J3751. So where is the J3 chassis it was so called born with?
If it is a J2 chassis then it is a J2 special (J4 look a like. The car is registered in Italy as a J4. He has also provided me with the VSCC issued 'buff form' showing it as a 'STANDARD' model. This is quite wrong. It is without question a 'SPECIAL'. It is no doubt a very nice car but it should be advertised correctly. At 82,000 euros plus the cost to ship to Australia plus GST & import duty I will keep looking. The other issue even if the price was cheaper, in Australia we need import approval & with all the conflicting information on the forms I think there would be problems.
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Ross Kelly
Australia
227 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2013 : 05:40:15
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Hi Ian,
If you like to contact me off forum I may be able to provide some help on car importing to Australia and some of the pitfalls of buying a car overseas.
Cheers
Ross Kelly
grkelly@bigpond.net.au |
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JMH
United Kingdom
923 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2013 : 08:08:11
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It is quite simple really. This car was the "remains of a J2". It was rebuilt as a J4 Rep not that long ago & has been through the hands of more than one restorer/dealer. It is a Rep, no more & no less. No doubt, it was built to J4 spec for sound business reasons.
Ian is right - the seller describing it as "born as a J3" is at best a bit of wishfull thinking, at worst complete tosh. But, he's a dealer, it is fairly easy to become quite well read in a narrow subject of interest, but less so as it broadens.
I have seen J2 chassis numbers in the form:
J2
****
before with the higher numbers, so that doesn't neccessarily mean that it's not genuine though.
As for the existance of a buff form? I wouldn't view that as a form of guarantee either!
The best thing anyone can do is write to the registrar & see what info he has. Cars that appear "complete" after being hidden for years tend to be photographed & talked about a lot. However, if it has only recently become known; it may have spent more years as a gate into a field than as a car chassis before being rescued! I kid you not, an MMM chassis was once acquired for the price of a replacement gate....
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IanG
Australia
72 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2013 : 11:41:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Ross Kelly
Hi Ian,
If you like to contact me off forum I may be able to provide some help on car importing to Australia and some of the pitfalls of buying a car overseas.
Cheers
Ross Kelly
grkelly@bigpond.net.au
Hi Ross, This is Ian, Josh's father. I started on this car long before the J3 I told you about that still may be there. I have also just been told about another J2/J4 that needs finishing off. I will catch up with at some stage.
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gordclark
Canada
170 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2013 : 05:39:15
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" ... Of the 33 original K3s made by the works, only 70 remain today"
Gord Clark |
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Colin McLachlan
United Kingdom
996 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2013 : 09:19:25
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Gord, that's an expression I remember first hearing about 20 years ago, only then it was something like "... only 54 remain today." I bet the current figure is getting closer to 100!
Colin
PA 0613
MG3242
Register No. 2591 |
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gordclark
Canada
170 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2013 : 17:08:29
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As long as someone is prepared to prostitute a K-type chassis, or fabricate one including a phoney chassis nbr and car plate, and as long as some one is prepared to manufacture the hard-to-get bits, like the supercharger and the pre-selector GB, then it only takes money to complete the job. Sad, but true!
Gord Clark
5 MGs incl PA 0921
Reg # 392 |
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