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mgtony
New Zealand
7 Posts |
 Posted - 13/11/2013 : 03:09:26
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Hi,
This is part of a post I did on the pre war Minor forum a while back and it was suggested I re-post on this forum.
The chassis has a Morris minor number on the dumb iron but the car is not registered as leaving the factory .
An old NZ MG expert suggested many years ago it might have been the morris /mg special I am asking about below but he has since passed away and I can't find any more info down here .Maybe another NZ member who might have records I have have yet to find.
thanks
tony lowe
Some years ago here in Auckland NZ I helped rescue from under an old house a dismantled car. I got called in when an alloy MG sump and cast MG exhaust were found. The owners agent was dodgy ( I found this out too late)
I offered and payed a very fair price , he told the very elderly owner who had gone overseas to live with family one hell of a lot less..As a consequence the valuable stuff accidentally packed and taken to Aussie never got returned and when the old boy died was destroyed . It was the gauges and all the photo's and paperwork from its early days.
The only reasonable certain information is the 90 plus yr old Old boy who owned the house had inherited it from his father. Just before the second world war his brother dismantled his race car and put it under the house to store it when he went overseas.. He died I believe at Casino .
The metal parts are like new , boat tail woodwork fine but canvas and most other wood rotten.
4 engines, but one is a full on race engine .. an old race engine expert is convinced it is a full on factory race engine , not something built up in NZ at the time.
Alloy rods, twin carbs , full race cam. lightened pistons , big valves and ports ..alloy sump , mg manifold, Not the sort of stuff available in NZ at the time..
One possibility is that it is the MG/ Morris special that competed in one of NZ's first major motor race's, the "1933 Prosperity GP "
A snippet from and old news periodical from the time discusses a race car a NZ mechanic in England getting trained in a factory workshop in 1932 , bought and had sent down here ..is this it??
Are there any records or the like that would identify a MG.M type/ Morris special , factory or privateer that might have been sold in 1932 and left UK.?
While the 1933 "prosperity GP " was a big event for Auckland at the time there is very little material available about the cars , and even fewer photo's , only the social side got much coverage ..
We were in the depths of the depression at the time and there is very little material at all from that era available .. race cars were not a priority it seems..
I know there has to be a story behind this car , too many unusual little things..
I have been tripping over it for too many years now , it was easy when I thought it was just old bones , ideal to build a period special .. what fun..
Trouble is ,while I enjoy rebuilding old race cars my skills and standards would not do justice to one deserving a top job. |
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kimber
United Kingdom
1529 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2013 : 08:20:07
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| How about some pics? |
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mgtony
New Zealand
7 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2013 : 00:31:00
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quote:
Originally posted by kimber
How about some pics?
Hi Kimber,
It is all stored under my workshop bench in boxes and any photos from 7 yrs ago are stuck in a frozen hard drive.
It is a MM chassis with running board outriggers missing, bolt on wheels .MG M sump, MG M exhaust manifold , MG factory boat tail wood .
A longer Riley ???? radiator fitting below the dumb irons with an octagon pressing cover held on under the radiator cap with a big MG badge in it.
the rh dumb iron has what looks like E 150 or E 1S0 as well as am S stamped on it.
It has a fabricated twin 1&1/18th SU inlet manifold and carbs .
Two of the engines are well worked. both with what people think might be Riley alloy comp rods , One cam is well worked the other is full on race.
There are half a dozen gear boxes and a couple of other spare standard Morris OHC engines
So it seems I might now be looking for evidence of what if any MG race cars using MG, Morris and Riley bits in possibly 1932 or early 33 a New Zealand mechanic over there on a Training exercise might have been
able to bring one home.
It was only used for a few years then dismantled and stored when the owner went away to WW2 and was killed in action.. It was there until we pulled it out 7 yrs ago. Most of the parts are like new , very little wear.
thanks
tony
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Ian lawrence
New Zealand
105 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2013 : 02:33:58
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Tony Hi
Interesting storey and the parts you have. Two things come to mind . 1./ there exists a Morrie OHC two door FHcoup with an MG J2 Engine and box maybe a diff? in Napier or it was 2 yrs ago, which was used as a hill climb car and sprint possibly race car? I think I have his address etc as he is a Morrie OHC Man and may be able to shed some light on your quest.
2,/ Of the spare gear boxes you have would you have an MG PB gear box spare for my restoration of 1934 MG PA 1327. I will need to consult my books to get the numbers of the PB box etc. I would also be interested to know if you have any spare Instruments.Like a 3 " speedo with Mileometer and trip within also a cronometric Rev Counter as was in the MGs of the period for that matter anything MG PA or PB I would be interested?
3./ I will talk to a colleague who my be able to shed some light on your quest for info who is not interent based. I am down in Ohope Beach
Cheers Ian 
Ian L |
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Oz34
United Kingdom
2560 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2013 : 10:54:37
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No need for the books Ian.
Single breather PA gearbox, 135; two breather PA, 165 but the one you want, PB is 199.
Of course the problem then after 80 years is, what ratios are actually in the box in 2013?
all part of the service!
Dave |
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Ian lawrence
New Zealand
105 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 00:01:41
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Many thanks Dave I will place this on my spread sheet Cheers from NZ Ianquote:
Originally posted by Oz34
No need for the books Ian.
Single breather PA gearbox, 135; two breather PA, 165 but the one you want, PB is 199.
Of course the problem then after 80 years is, what ratios are actually in the box in 2013?
all part of the service!
Dave
Ian L |
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mgtony
New Zealand
7 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2013 : 10:14:37
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Hi Ian,
I am not sure what gear boxes I have , there are 4 different types .
It was only after I packed it all up to store it started to look like more than just a wreck that had been special'd at some time.
Back then a few mates who are old MG'ers seeing it sitting on bolt on wires and obvious Morris bits as well as go fast MG like me might have jumped to the wrong conclusion..It was Ferris who took a real close look and suggested it was more than that.
I have had someone mention the Napier car , I wondered if it was the one Gary Price was working on some years ago?
I will clear some space so I can bring all the Morris/ MG stuff out so I can get some more good photo's of everything..
I also have a cunning plan , Early next year I will invite the local experts to my workshop to raid my SU carb collection , I have been promising to do it for a few years now.I will lay out all the bits and get them identified . I have been collecting SU carbs and Manifolds for over 50 yrs now and have hundreds all pre 60's plus NOS parts for them.I have kept many old MG's and others on the road over the years out of the collection , but since my eyesight started to fade with age I can no longer read the numbers, so now infrequently bring them out and let people rat through them.. Only people with a real need for period parts.. I know most of the MG guys and vintage / veteran racers
but if you know any Morris people who needs SU bits and would like an invite let me know. The more looking at the special who know their stuff the better.
I might also have some NOS small Roto flow shocks available , in great condition still .
tony lowe , auckland |
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mgtony
New Zealand
7 Posts |
Posted - 16/04/2014 : 10:36:29
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I finally dug the bones out to start working on the car,
A revisit to try and read the numbers on the dumb iron .
A push from Chris on the Pre War MM forum and some new technology as clear as day M 27555 , so finally I have something that will firm up its provenience..
tony |
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Ian Grace
USA
661 Posts |
Posted - 16/04/2014 : 23:15:24
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Interesting.
Here's my rather cryptic Vintage Minor Register notes I have on M27555:
"Chassis with special body, M parts and twin carbs. Simon Jansen was interested in purchasing, but bought a Seven instead!"
I have a considerable series of e-mails from Simon regarding this car which I would be happy to share. I can also confirm from proiduction records that this chassis was originally bodied as a saloon around 3rd September 1930. Shipped to New Zealand 11/9/30. Original engine 28460, now fitted with engine number 31682.
Hope this helps. |
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mgtony
New Zealand
7 Posts |
Posted - 19/04/2014 : 01:07:26
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Thanks Ian,
When Simon was looking for r project car it was suggested if he could establish its early providence in NZ and period photo's he could of had the car for what it owed me if he wanted it.
My main interest is to have to car returned to its original special form if it is significant.Otherwise it just stayed waiting.
I have not spoken to Simon , a mutual fiend was keen to get Simon on board I think back then only deducted the chassis number was am M but it does not look like it..but it is.
Frankly , If I ever get to the bottom of it all and establish if it is worthy of a skilled restoration Simon will get the same offer again.
He is a true craftsman and far more capable of me to do it justice.
Ignore the engine number , I have 4 others , it was just one I stuck in to mock it up.
Yes I would be keen to get any info I can my email address is tonylowe@ihug.co.nz .
I spoke to the old guys wife and she is adamant that he was told the car was dismantled and stored in 1936 and nothing we can find suggests that is not the case.
The name T Butler comes up .
Back in NZ from the early 30's there is scant reporting on motor sport and very few photo's .
The odd reference to a Morris special that had a DNS in the 1931 Auckland Prosperity GP but got started for the Support race. Then a record being set at Hennings by an Morris/MG special , but so little period news.
The boat tail , Ferris , a local expert , or was sure it was built in the UK and thought the twin SU manifold was to.
tony
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mgtony
New Zealand
7 Posts |
Posted - 19/04/2014 : 01:20:03
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HiIan,
Also have engine numbers
35649 a
35679 a
31729 a
Very heavy worked Cams , I will get them measured but very radical and a couple of worked heads , big valves and ported.
tony |
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