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Orstin
United Kingdom
673 Posts |
 Posted - 09/04/2018 : 09:17:44
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My apologies in advance for posting a non-MG picture but I wondered in the spirit of supporting research in general whether anyone with access to Cowbourne might be able to help me in identifying this picture..
Very many thanks for any help offered..
Hugh
So many dynamos |
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KevinA
New Zealand
712 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2018 : 10:59:50
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Well I do have all the Cowbournes but I don't think that will help. The competition number is a rather unusual heavy font which probably rules out the main MCC events. The only mainstream event to use a similar font was the Brighton-Beer but even that doesn't seem quite right. I suspect this is from a smaller club event instead.
I am more than happy to be proved wrong though! |
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Orstin
United Kingdom
673 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2018 : 13:00:25
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Thanks Kevin. Not having ever seen a copy of Cowbourne, I don't know what information they hold. I had been lead to understand that one could cross reference vehicle registration numbers. That seems perhaps not to be the case...
Edit: You made me think and I did a bit of cross referencing on Austin Harris' web site and found this - http://austinharris.co.uk/photo/austin-7-on-1930-mcc-lands-end-trial/4041
Although the registration number is partially obscured, I think this is the same car. Does that help in accessing Cowbourne data perhaps?
So many dynamos |
Edited by - Orstin on 09/04/2018 13:04:58 |
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kimber
United Kingdom
1530 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2018 : 13:53:33
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Good grief!
Austin 7s on the Triple M website?
People have been shot for lessl  |
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JCB
United Kingdom
384 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2018 : 18:10:39
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Dear Hugh and Forum:
Having recently bought two volume of the three volume set of British Trial Drivers by Donald Cowbourne. Number three is in the post.
I offer the following thoughts.
A three volume set all around the 600 page mark .
So 1800 pages all in.
Lots of information and photos. Great period atmosphere.
Big crowds in the middle of no where. Lots of mud.
Hats and trench coats.
Unless the car has a history or important owner/ driver.
The only way is to wade through all three volumes.
All pre-databases. So little cross referencing.
Great source but long term research tool.
All the best.
John Bakewell
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JohnE
United Kingdom
391 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2018 : 23:06:25
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UW XXXX was only issued in London from (I believe) August 1929 until December 1929. UW 3922 (an MG M) was registered in October, so we may be looking at an August or September London car.
JohnE |
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KevinA
New Zealand
712 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2018 : 01:54:03
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I'm afraid I still think that it was just a small club event and not one in Donald's books.
The font, the low number (motorbikes went first in the main events) and even the style of the picture. It might prove virtually impossible to track down unless you fall very lucky |
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JCB
United Kingdom
384 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2018 : 10:07:52
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Hugh and Forum:
The question of where and when still not been fixed.
Would help in the hunt for an answer.
All the best.
John Bakewell |
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Mike the M
United Kingdom
485 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2018 : 10:43:34
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From Cowbourne:-
It would not be an MCC , Exeter, Lands End or Edinburgh because all early numbers are motor bikes.
MCC Sporting trial 1931 no. 37 P.A.Taneborne
1932 no. 37 H.C.Hobson
MCC July Trial no number 37
North West London M.C. Gloucester Trial 1931 J.C.C.Bond Bronze medal
Brighton Beer Trial no numbers recorded for 1929,1930,1932 or 1934
However, A.E.Marsh was entered in 1929 and he was well known and may have had a picture taken. (He went on to later do the 100 ascents of Beggars Roost in an M type and was the Father of Jem Marsh of Marcos cars.)
Colmore Trial - no number 37s
Mike Dalby |
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Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1487 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2018 : 10:50:30
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Donald Cowbourne's life-work is certainly a remarkable research tool, but the books only cover the major trials including the three big MCC events, the Lands End, Exeter and Edinburgh Trials, plus the MCC Sporting Trials and Rallies, the Brighton to Beer, the London to Gloucester and the Colmore Trials plus a number of Scottish events. During the 1928 to 1939 period there were dozens and dozens of smaller trials, many of them one day or half day events, and reports and programmes for these are difficult to find. If UW 2033 is the same car as is shown climbing Beggars Roost in the 1930 Lands End, as shown in the Austin Harris images, the Entrant Mr Fisher had graduated to a Fraser Nash by 1931.
I am with Kevin on this. The mystery event is almost certainly a small club trial and is likely to be very difficult if not impossible to investigate more fully.
Colin B. |
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Orstin
United Kingdom
673 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2018 : 14:18:02
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Thank you all for your comments. I had a feeling it would be a long shot but you never know. A little background might just provide further explanation. The photo (we think of a cutting from a magazine or newspaper) is one of a set of photos loaned to the Austin 7 Archive from the family archives of the Boyd-Carpenter family. Boyd-Carpenter was a privateer and car builder of Austin 7 based racing and road going cars of the late 20s who had some geuine success. Most of the other photos in the collection we have been able to identify, but this has remained a complete mystery. Clearly the family had collected it and one assumes it is a Boyd Carpenter car, but after that...
I had hoped that Cowbourne may have shed some light, but clearly I didn't know what information the books held and in what form. Thanks to those who took the time to look...
So many dynamos |
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JCB
United Kingdom
384 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2018 : 14:55:40
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Hugh and Forum:
Sorry to be a dog with a bone.
I Googled( as you do) Boyd-Carpenter race cars .
Photos of various Austins and registrations at Brooklands and trials.
All Austins and about the correct date.
The man had a career interest in cars and racing in various forms.
The basic material appears to be available what is missing is the background information.
All the best.
John Bakewell
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KevinA
New Zealand
712 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2018 : 18:03:05
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Hugh
This is a Boyd carpenter in the 1930 inter varsity trial. The unusual font can clearly be seen on the number 7.
The card is larger on yours though so maybe the same event, different year
Now look at the same club's speed trial in 1931
This time both the font and the card size look like a good match, even if not absolutely 100%. I suspect therefore we are pretty close and I'd be putting my efforts in around these events if I were you
Kevin |
Edited by - KevinA on 10/04/2018 18:11:40 |
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Brian Kelly
USA
526 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2018 : 02:52:52
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As a matter of interest.
I think that this would clarify that it is the same car as posted by Hugh.
Notice the mascot tied and hanging from the radiator cap.
Brian.
Furthermore;
As seen on the comments of the LAT photo.
"168 was T S Fisher, seen here on Beggar's"
Roost"
Cowbourne does list him as an entrant in the Lands End Trial 1930 event. Page 43. Nothing more to add except there must be about 20 entrants with Morris in the trial.
Brian.
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Edited by - Brian Kelly on 11/04/2018 03:16:45 |
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Brian Kelly
USA
526 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2018 : 03:33:52
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[quote]Originally posted by Brian Kelly
As a matter of interest.
I think that this would clarify that it is the same car as posted by Hugh.
Notice the mascot tied and hanging from the radiator cap.
Brian.
Furthermore;
As seen on the comments of the LAT photo.
"168 was T S Fisher, seen here on Beggar's"
Roost"
Cowbourne does list him as an entrant in the Lands End Trial 1930 event. Page 43. Nothing more to add except there must be about 20 entrants with Morris in the trial.
Brian.
Edit;
Page 135, Cowbourne.
1930 Lands End trial. No. 168. T. S. Fisher. Won a Silver Award. Model of car "BC". 747 cc |
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Orstin
United Kingdom
673 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2018 : 07:34:13
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Thanks Brian and Kevin for further input. I am following up on the possibility of an InterVarsity connection. Through a rather tenuous connection, I think I may be able to gain access to some relevant records, though I may not get a speedy reply. We shall see.
I know it's an almost impossible question to answer but do we think the driver in 'my' photo is the same one as in the 'Austin Harris' photo? I don't think there is any doubt over the car - as well as the chain and mascot there are some very obvious spot lights mounted either side of the screen which appear identical.
I spent an hour or so trawling through the Brunell photos at Allamy.com last night in the vain hope of spotting something, but nothing - apart from a number 37 car in the InterVarsity Novemeber 1931 Trial which eliminated that event as a possibilty. I was quite disappointed!
So many dynamos |
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Topic |
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Any clues in Cowbourne?
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