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John Reid
United Kingdom
704 Posts |
 Posted - 10/05/2020 : 14:20:16
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I would suggest that the car described on Ebay as a J4/J5 is JB6866, is PORTHOS of the 1935/36 Three Musketeers Trials Team. Oliver Richardson and I have had a close look and can confirm supporting evidence.
The body tub, which is P type, and the special bonnet were originally fitted to the NEs when they were used in 1935 before the Musketeer Specials were built in August 1935. The chassis of JB6866 is L1 and the radiator is PA - the aluminium bonnet was modified at the front to accommodate the change from N to P. The front mudguards in the photo are J2 and are mounted using P wing stays, which is correct. Although a poor photo, the front brake drum looks Q-type. There are features/louvres on the bonnet which I can see are the same as Aramis.
When MG sold the Specials in 1937, Porthos was bought for J.B. Dyke-Acland as a 21st Birthday present. After working for MG he had started his own garage in 1936. He fitted an outside exhaust and bonnet strap to the car and I have two photos of it in that configuration. Once is on New Mill in the 1938 MCC Lands End Trial and the other is climbing Juniper in 1939. He also raced the car at Brooklands in 1938/39.
Mike Dalby, who met with Lorna Dyke-Acland a few years ago, says there is a photo of JB6866 in the October 1937 Sports Car magazine showing a line of cars owned and serviced by Dyke-Acland Ltd, Service Garage, Thame. If anyone has access to the Sports Car it would be good to see if Porthos by chance has a 4 on the radiator - like the Ebay photo. |
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Ray Masters
United Kingdom
568 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2020 : 14:45:48
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Can anybody ‘ scale up ‘ the car in the photo compared with a standard P type by measuring across the door gap , accepting this is a standard PType body and measuring the bonnet length compared with a P type one .
The photo is taken ar a slight angle to the car and not square on but that should have no effect on the scaling up .
It might just confirm whether it is a 4 or 6 cylinder engine underneath. |
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Oz34
United Kingdom
2538 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2020 : 17:22:14
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P door; 2 feet; P bonnet approx 3ft 3. This one is nearly 3 times the width of the door, QED.
Dave |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6121 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2020 : 17:38:03
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The wheelbase of the L1 is 6 1/2” longer than a P Type. Assuming all of that extra length was accommodated in the bonnet that would make the bonnet about 4 feet long. I think a 6 foot bonnet is a bit unlikely but it could easily be 4 feet, depending on where you’re measuring.
Simon J
J3437 |
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John Reid
United Kingdom
704 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2020 : 20:03:59
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The P Type bonnet is 39" along the hinge and my original Musketeer bonnet is 45", which takes up Simon's point about the extra 6.5" wheelbase of the L1.
Scaling from the Ebay photo would suggest a bonnet length of about 45".
Here is a photograph of Aramis' bonnet which looks identical to the Ebay photo. Three bonnets were made to this specification.
Also attached is a side view of Aramis before painting.
John R
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ht1962
Netherlands
114 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2020 : 21:07:00
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Is this the picture?
Its from the 1938 December issue of the Sports Car
Regards
Halbe
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John Reid
United Kingdom
704 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2020 : 21:45:42
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| Thanks Halbe, yes it is. I got the date wrong in my post but your magazine date of December 1938 ties in with Dyke-Acland's Brooklands dates. His car has the large headlights which he fitted, and you can see the bonnet strap. The car on the R of Porthos is JB6865, Athos. |
Edited by - John Reid on 10/05/2020 21:46:23 |
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KevinA
New Zealand
670 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2020 : 23:18:34
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| Well John you asked "If anyone has access to the Sports Car it would be good to see if Porthos by chance has a 4 on the radiator - like the Ebay photo" and clearly it has but interestingly it is not the same 4. The Ebay one is central and the Sports Car offset |
Edited by - KevinA on 10/05/2020 23:19:34 |
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John Reid
United Kingdom
704 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2020 : 00:00:34
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Kevin, agreed.
The main evidence of identity lies in the bodywork topics already covered.
John R |
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Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1487 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2020 : 11:05:59
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Dyke-Acland entered the August Meeting at Brooklands (1st Aug 1938)
and in the Fifth Race, the First August Road Handicap over 5 laps of the Campbell Circuit, his 1408cc (s) car carried race number 4. He left on the 15 second handicap mark.
Later the same day he entered the Seventh Race, the Second August Road Handicap again over 5 laps of the Campbell Circuit carrying race number 3 - but now his handicap had been reduced to 5 seconds.
He was back again in 1939 for the 11th March 1939 meeting and entered the First March Mountain Handicap over 5 laps of the Mountain Circuit carrying race number 10. His Handicap was 25 seconds.
I don't know how well (or badly) he did in any of these events, as I haven't had time to check the results sheets.
Colin B. |
Edited by - Colin Butchers on 11/05/2020 11:07:40 |
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Photos on Ebay
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