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Welch 22
United Kingdom
8 Posts |
 Posted - 15/05/2014 : 07:55:05
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The gentleman seated in the fine automobile above is my Grandfather, Alan Welch.
I am seeking a number of pieces of information and I am hoping to utilise, if I may, the knowledgeable minds of this forum!
Firstly, is this an F2 or a J2?
Are there any tell tale signs on the car to suggest which exact model?
Despite a great interest in motor vehicles of days gone by I simply don't possess enough knowledge of MGs to answer this.
Obviously finding the whereabouts of this car (if it is still alive) is the most important part.
If there isn't anybody about on this forum that can help, are there other sites or even publications that would be worth trying?
I know Practical Classics has a section in the back for this precise purpose but not really sure PC is the right demographic.
I would love to find out more information regarding the Ulster Motor Rally (now the circuit of Ireland) of 1932.
As far as I was aware, my Grandfather was the winner of the 1932 Rally.
However the recent addition of history of results to the wiki entry for the Rally do not list him as the winner.
My mother has a feeling he came second and I am waiting to hear from my Grandmother, Mrs Welch, on this matter.
Sadly he is no longer able to answer this question himself as he passed away in the late 60s and as another blow, his trophy collection was taken in a burglary not long after.
Would love to inform the possible current owner of its great racing pedigree!
I thank those of that were patient enough to read through my long-winded post and thank in advance any help that is sent my way.
P.s
I do have more photos somewhere if necessary.
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Edited by - Welch 22 on 15/05/2014 07:58:25 |
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O.Thomas
United Kingdom
755 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2014 : 08:29:21
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| J2. Small brakes , straight sided radiator etc. and looks like later j2 as has the later style windscreen .nice photo,Oliver |
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Welch 22
United Kingdom
8 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2014 : 08:46:52
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Thanks Oliver, I had noticed the radiator difference in pictures of F2s and J2s but couldn't work out if it was just the angles of pictures.
As for it possibly being a later J2 due to the windscreen, the photo is dated 1932 on the back, whether this is correct or a mistake I cannot be 100% sure, however it does seem to be written on many many moons ago. |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6303 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2014 : 08:56:18
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Sam,
I'd agree with Oliver, definitely a J2. The windscreen with the strengthened side supports dates from about March 1933 and the close set headlights came in around May 1933. There were adapter brackets to modify the headlights on earlier cars but nonetheless I doubt if this photo could have been taken before May 1933 which would suggest that perhaps it was the 1933 Ulster Rally?
Simon J
J3437 |
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George Eagle
United Kingdom
3266 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2014 : 09:25:00
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What a lovely photo - car is definitely a J2.
Unfortunately the Registration number is not recorded in the printed Register.
George
L2023 |
Edited by - George Eagle on 15/05/2014 09:25:45 |
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Welch 22
United Kingdom
8 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2014 : 09:58:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon Johnston
Sam,
I'd agree with Oliver, definitely a J2. The windscreen with the strengthened side supports dates from about March 1933 and the close set headlights came in around May 1933. There were adapter brackets to modify the headlights on earlier cars but nonetheless I doubt if this photo could have been taken before May 1933 which would suggest that perhaps it was the 1933 Ulster Rally?
Simon J
J3437
Thanks for your input Simon.
I suppose it is possible that the date on the photo is wrong, the writing seems to be in my Grandmothers handwriting (as far as I can tell, anyway) and she did not know him till after WWII so it could be that it's the wrong date.
Perhaps she or some other family member will be able to shed some light on that. |
Edited by - Welch 22 on 15/05/2014 10:05:11 |
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Welch 22
United Kingdom
8 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2014 : 10:01:42
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quote:
Originally posted by George Eagle
What a lovely photo - car is definitely a J2.
Unfortunately the Registration number is not recorded in the printed Register.
George
L2023
Thanks for looking that up for me George.
Could you please explain exactly what that means though?
What exactly is the printed register?
Does not being on the register suggest that it is most likely in the great scr@pyard in the sky? |
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Ralph
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2014 : 10:31:07
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If you put this registration number into the national tyres web site it shows that the vehicle still exists as a 1932 unknown vehicle.
There is therefore a good chance it still exists
Ralph |
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Cathelijne
Netherlands
745 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2014 : 11:27:03
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Hello Sam,
The printed Register listing keeps track of cars that are still around in whatever shape or condition, so it looks to be a non-survivor indeed.
The factory service files do not hold the registration number for this car either which makes it quite hard to establish the car's identity (i.e. chassis number).
What is a possibility is that the car has obtained a new registration at some point during its life, either through re registering or through a move outside the UK, but that's rather a long shot.
Another possibility would be Jeremy Hawke, J2 Historian Extraordinaire. He may well be going through his (Dad's) files as we speak to see if he can find anything on this registration number!
Was your grandfather by any chance related to Lewis Welch, one of the 1930s Musketeer trials drivers?
Regards,
Cat
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Ralph
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2014 : 11:45:38
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Further to my earlier entry the amercan mmm register states that IW4377 (not IW377 as shown in heading) was a County Londonderry (Derry) Northern Ireland and therefore the car may be languishing over in Northern Ireland. Maybe our Irish members may throw further light on this. Was your Grandmother from Ireland.
Ralph
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Ralph
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2014 : 12:24:47
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I seem to have taken up the cudgels up on this car as I have looked through Mike hawke's book on the J2 which gives j2874 as sold by Thompson Edwards Motor Co of Londonderry to Alan J Welch who competed in the 1935 Ulster Motor Rally. No registration number is given but this may well be the car.
Thompson Edwards Motor Co premises in Strand Street Londonderry was taken over by the North West College and is now a modern educational block, however they do have a significant motor engineering dept.
Ralph |
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JMH
United Kingdom
923 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2014 : 12:53:07
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Hello all,
I'll have a look in the files this evening - off up the road anyway as Christian H. is arriving with his J2 (I think, or mabybe Olli found something that needs fixing). As the car seems to be in the book, there will be something in there.
JH |
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O.Thomas
United Kingdom
755 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2014 : 12:58:13
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| No he left 3/4 hour ago!! |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6303 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2014 : 14:03:43
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J2874 started down the production line on 10 February 1933 so could easily have made the cut for the strengthened windscreen. New brackets for the headlights that moved them inboard a bit to cut down on the spray were introduced in January 1933 so perhaps the factory fitted these brackets until new wing stays incorporating the revised position were introduced from chassis 3331 in May. But definitely a 1933 car. What a super photo as well. Do please share some more with us.
Simon J
J3437 |
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Welch 22
United Kingdom
8 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2014 : 18:47:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Ralph
I seem to have taken up the cudgels up on this car as I have looked through Mike hawke's book on the J2 which gives j2874 as sold by Thompson Edwards Motor Co of Londonderry to Alan J Welch who competed in the 1935 Ulster Motor Rally. No registration number is given but this may well be the car.
Thompson Edwards Motor Co premises in Strand Street Londonderry was taken over by the North West College and is now a modern educational block, however they do have a significant motor engineering dept.
Ralph
Delighted with the responses everybody! Ralph, great detective work!
Only just realised that I got the reg wrong in my post heading, I'm blaming that on writing the post off the back of a 10 hr night shift.
The dates on everything seem skewed, such as entering the 1935 rally, he may have entered the Ulster Motor Rally numerous times and have a vague memory in my head of another picture of a J2 with the curved style windscreen with a different Ulster Motor Rally entry number on it.
I myself entered this reg into the Autotrader car checker and it comes up as 1932 too, but seems that the date must be wrong.
This may be a totally invented memory but it is possible as he did have numerous cars as I have pictures of him with other racing vehicles and apparently was quite the speed freak and thrill seeker! (my Grandmothers story of him driving on two wheels through the park to thrill her on a date with her seems to confirm this)
At the moment I am really busy at work and the family is dealing with two pregnancies (one due imminently) so when I have time off my contact probably won't be pestering them with requests to have them search the photo vaults but I will be searching my Mothers attic for other info/photos.
No Ralph, my grandmother is not from Ireland. They met towards the end of the war when she was based in Scotland as a 'radar girl' in the WAAFs and eventually settled in Godalming, Surrey.
Possible Alan was related to Lewis Welch but it's not a name I have heard, will ask around when I get the chance.
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Edited by - Welch 22 on 15/05/2014 18:55:35 |
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JMH
United Kingdom
923 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2014 : 20:27:23
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Sam,
I've had a look in my Fathers' files & Ralph is correct. Though the book (published back in 2007) lists your Grandfathers car as J2874, it did not tie the Chassis No in with a registration, However, he later matched the two because his later notes list the two together. Frustratingly, there is little more information there in the notes & the source of his 1935 Ulster Rally reference is not listed (unusually).
I will have to do a bit more digging, there is a possibility that the original sale reference came from the files at Abingdon.
JH |
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J2 IW4377 Ulster Motor Rally
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