| Author |
 Topic  |
|
DDMDSN
New Zealand
329 Posts |
 Posted - 04/01/2016 : 01:28:48
|
This is my first Forum post.
I am most interested to hear member's views on the merits of conservation of our cars vrs restoration.
My PB is being prepared for a local concours car show in the Survivor class, as it is an unrestored car in that it has never been through a body off restoration, and the aim over the last 50 years of family ownership has been to keep the car as original and authentic as possible. For the show, the original parts such as handles and badges, are being put back on the car. The preferred tools I am looking for on eBay and from parts suppliers to complete my toolkit are in original unrestored condition. I know from a few local MMM enthusiasts that I am not alone on this thinking.
Most cars I see these days are either restored, or barn finds.
In recent years the 'old school' crafts people apprenticed on the early cars are becoming fewer. I believe that good conservation of our cars depends on the parts being made or repaired using applied skill, craft, knowledge, and artistic integrity. This is of concern as the result otherwise can be either incorrect restoration, or damage.
Regards, Donald McLeod
PB0759 New Zealand |
|
|
George Eagle
United Kingdom
3240 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2016 : 09:42:20
|
Hello Donald
Welcome to the Forum.
We have been in touch recently over the metal car badge for your PB.
The recent trend is to preserve cars in original condition as witness that French barn find Ferrari which sold for a huge sum and has been re commissioned rather than taken apart for a rebuild. You have sent me a photo of your PB, the car looks to be in very good condition and you are right to preserve it as is.
I did at one time own a one previous owner YB which was far too original to be meddled with, and the same applies to my one previous owner and totally original MGB GTV8.
Perhaps you could post a couple of photos of the PB on this page?
George
L2023 (which came into the rebuild category!)
|
Edited by - George Eagle on 04/01/2016 09:44:38 |
 |
|
|
MG Maverick
United Kingdom
1045 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2016 : 11:25:00
|
Hello Donald, Welcome and thanks for your views. My personal feelings are that both ' camps ' have their merits for varying reasons. As George rightly mentions, a rare unmolested car should be kept that way for the future, only if for research and for the sake of complete originality. On the restoration side, for a ' barn find ' that is not too rare, but restorable then that is fine also. These cars need to be used, so certain updates and improvements are permissible for the safety of drivers, passengers and the public at large, best if the car can be reverted back, but importance in crack testing, brake upgrades etc which allow our cars to be used as they were intended now and in the future. So my reply is both genres have their place. 
Chris ( J2353 ) & ( J4129 )
Brighton, East Sussex & Paphos, Cyprus. |
|
|
|
Nick Feakes
USA
3374 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2016 : 13:00:47
|
Welcome to the forum Donald
If you would like your car added to the "Pictures = Members' Cars" section, then pleas send me the picture you would like to use (I can change it for you in the future should you wish) and I will add it for you. Once I have done that, you can then add pictures of the car yourself.
If you can find the time, please take close up pictures of as many of the details and parts of your car as you can. As your car is so original, these will be valuable to any future restorer as a reference. If you send the pictures to me (on a disc or we can set up a drop box for the purpose) I will add them to the archive so that all can see them.
On the subject of your topic, many cars are found as a collection of parts (mostly the metal ones) many of the other parts are only usable as patterns, so restoration is the only option.
Nick
Webmaster |
|
|
|
DDMDSN
New Zealand
329 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2016 : 23:05:58
|
Thanks for feedback.
George, great to hear back from you, and as requested have attached a couple of photos that may be of interest including a front view proudly displaying the new MMM Register badge you supplied recently.
To note the car does somewhat reflect its history and owner preferences, the headlights you will notice are TC, and the grill slats stainless steel fitted by my late father in 1965 (family lives in the centre of dairy country and founder of stainless steel milk tankers!).
The gearbox has never been touched, and when paint stripped off, pleased to find that the factory finish and original number stamping were revealed.
Car has body no. plate, no guarantee plate, I think I have found out why thanks to the chassis file and doing some homework. First owner was a Lieutenant J.W.H. Bennett only address given a Navy vessel the H.M.S. Viceroy, and factory couldn't find him to issue the plate. By the way, looks like he brought the car out to New Zealand on a Navy training vessel in 1937 and sold it here in 1938.
Nick, yes can forward through a picture for the members car section soon.
Chris I agree that some improvements are needed for safety and reliability. Have done so too and where possible without making other modifications and changes to the car. For example I made the clip on air cleaner manifold. At this stage my original wheel hubs finally will need replacing soon!
Regards
Donald
 |
|
|
|
Steve Cooper
United Kingdom
57 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2016 : 13:21:19
|
| To George Eagle. Would the "rebuild category" of "L2023" include the fitting of non original items such as a supercharger and a pre-selector gearbox, not to mention cycle mudguards - hmmm!? |
|
|
|
JMH
United Kingdom
911 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2016 : 10:27:32
|
Your point being?
JH |
|
|
|
greg
United Kingdom
833 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2016 : 19:31:00
|
| George eagles car is a fanstastic car nothing wrong with the supercharger and preselecta gearbox 100s of tripple m cars have these components like j2s with superchargers! When I eventually finish my j2 if it's as good a George's I'll be a very happy man. |
|
|
|
graham3647
United Kingdom
448 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2016 : 21:33:41
|
I can only add that I would love to own Mr Eagles car. It's perfection.
Cheers. |
|
|
|
DDMDSN
New Zealand
329 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2016 : 22:52:06
|
Agree Mr Eagle's car looks superb and I bet is great to drive.
Believe cars can take on the preferences and personality of their owners which although may not always be as original, represents the owner and the time, and can become part of the mana of the car.
Not always, the 50s formica and fluffy surround as found on my car dashboard as bought by my late father in 1964, had to go! See before and after shots. At least it didn't come with fluffy dice.
|
|
|
|
JMH
United Kingdom
911 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2016 : 18:06:31
|
The "original" car is a rare beast indeed. Most cars you see now are rebuilt to "original specification", there is a subtle difference. A car which has been on the road for most/all of its life is also rare and inevitably will have a multitude of small (or not so small) non-original features which are what give it the feel and character of a car which is 80+ years old. By & large these are worth preserving in my humble view.
However, if a major rebuild is required from an "as found" wreck, maybe no more than boxes of bits, then the restorer has free reign, some go for the std factory finish & some for an enhanced period spec - there's no problem with either. having paid a premium for his sports car in the first place, period photos suggest that a pretty high percentage of owners modded their cars in some way after delivery (or specified extras to start with). So what's the issue?
We are of course not talking about good original cars vandalised to turn them into something they are not just for more bucks. sometimes the market is an ass!
The car looks good Donald.
JH |
|
|
|
O.Thomas
United Kingdom
755 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2016 : 18:23:14
|
| Stephen , you don't appear to mention the other 5 or 6 cars in the L2 section of the members cars that have cycle wings, preselector boxes or blowers or a combination of all 3??!! |
|
|
|
DDMDSN
New Zealand
329 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2016 : 19:48:48
|
Thanks for feedback.
JH appreciate your comments, and would like to use your 1st paragraph part to go with the storyboard for my concours survivor class entry on 14th Feb . I can post a copy of the display to this post if of interest.
L2s are very special cars, my favorite possibly (with the PB)!) of all the MMMs. There were of course very few L2 2 seaters (90), more L1s which I gather a number have been converted/modified.
There is a very original L2 owned by a well known local early MG restorer. I will work on him to keep it that way and go down the conservation path, even to keep it's one change, a P type body tub. He too was talking of converting to cycle guards .
On the L1 front, was pleased to see in the latest Pre War MG Car Club of Australia journal, an original with local history L1 Continental Coupe started restoration. These and any saloon are very rare I know. One reason is I gather, the wooden bodies are difficult and highly expensive to repair or restore, hence conversion to 2 seater bodies in a lot of cases.
Donald |
|
|
|
ags
United Kingdom
275 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2016 : 22:54:05
|
Hi Donald,
Don't knock Formica too badly, a thin skin is a lot more durable than the original veneer. I know this from experience as my own car had about 1/16" Formica covering up the original dashboard (which was rather badly painted silver as per a J2) when I got it, admittedly I did not have your fluffy trim around it as the Formica skin was thin enough to allow the original chrome trim strips to be used. Apart from the lack of TLC needed by the dash I was blissfully ignorant of this until the accident in 1977 when both parts of the dash were split in two revealing the sorry truth. Since then I have been on veneer which fades in the sun on nice days and wrinkles in the rain when not so nice, and never looks anything like as good as the substitute.
I will not now revert but as Jeremy has said long term owners all make their own choices as to what they will each tolerate, or not. In my case besides the faded and wrinkled dashboard I am always going to retain the swept wings, even though when racing I knew that they added some two hundred pounds to the weight and a great deal of aerodynamic drag, so that my best guess was that top speed would go up by some 10 - 15 mph on cycle wings and the acceleration might also be about 10% better. (I even went as far as planning a scheme with electrical connectors at the base of the wing stays to allow the swept wings to be replaced by cycle ones for speed events. I was dissuaded when it was pointed out that the paintwork was likely to receive major damage during any change overs.)
I have two main reasons for retaining the swept wings. Primarily the aesthetic one, in my opinion the P types look very much better when "properly dressed" so that you can appreciate the very subtle but artful curves that they incorporate and secondly the first time anyone drives a cycle wing car on a damp day they will learn the weatherproofing benefits of the swept variety. My car gets driven whenever I need it and of course I realise that the downside is extra maintenance and inspection.
Just plain rambling from
Andrew Smith
MMM571 - PB - Abergavenny |
Edited by - ags on 11/01/2016 23:05:45 |
|
|
|
DDMDSN
New Zealand
329 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2016 : 08:07:56
|
Cars did get changed a lot in the early days.
Following is a photo of my PB racing in 1949 in Christchurch NZ
No wings, fortunately the parts were all put back on except the apron which had to be remade.
Donald
|
|
|
|
Dolts
United Kingdom
1129 Posts |
Posted - 14/01/2016 : 08:37:33
|
A bit of stripping for racing is just performance based. Many of us that " Strip" off for the track still convert back to road clothing inbetween events.
In the good old days of course, I know Dad would drive to events, get changed for racing, and pop it all back on for the way home.
Infact some of the C Type racers still switch from Racing to sports cars at the events. We are all called into action as the pit crew!
I didnt have a body when we restored the P Type so we went for cycle wings as it was easier and sooooo much lighter. Knowing that we would be doing various competition events. The orginal bonnet and wings are seriously heavy!
But I agree, I do love the lines of the Swept wing P's!
Mark Dolton
www.triple-mracing.com
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Forum Locked
Topic Locked
