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Peter Croft
New Zealand
52 Posts |
 Posted - 25/10/2016 : 09:48:51
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Does any member know anything about the J2 driven by C.J.Fryer in the September 1933 MCC members meeting at Brooklands ? He entered the One Hour High Speed Trial and achieved an average speed of 59.86 mph and received a Premier Award for his efforts. His earlier competition mount was an M type.
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Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1487 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2016 : 10:21:03
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Peter, Neither of Mike Hawke's books on J2s refer to C J Fryer as having owned a J2. However, Fryer was a team partner with P E G Lobb in a Mid Surrey AC Grand Cup Trial in 1933, so there is a slim possibility that Lobb lent his J2 to Fryer for the event to which you refer. Fryer was a fairly frequent competitor in his M Type, RX7455 (no current news of this car) whilst Lobb's car was J2819 (originally MG2242, later re-registered as MG5201). MG5201 is still very much alive and well living in Brighton, East Sussex, but regrettably it only seems to cover a very small number of miles each year, so its current owner tells me.
Colin B.
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JMH
United Kingdom
911 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2016 : 19:06:28
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Colin/Peter, the elusive Mr C.J.Fryer was also Hon Sec of the MGCC in 1933 & had an M Type at one time. Alas could not associated him with a chassis, hence his not being included in either book. Still down in his notes as J2????. All leads welcome!
JH |
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Peter Croft
New Zealand
52 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2016 : 21:14:11
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Jeremy and Colin,
Thanks for the replies. Some time ago Mike sent me a copy of his J2 records which lists car details etc obtained from those factory record cards and comments re owners and history including competition history. There is no mention of C.J.Fryer which may mean one either 1. Fryer never owned a J2 ( as suggested he may have used Lobbs grey painted car) 2. The J2 used may have been obtained 2nd hand and therefore no record of his ownership kept by the factory or anyone else.
There is a photo of the start of the 1933 One Hour event held by LAT.Close inspection should show a grey J2. It does show a two tone J2. Does anyone have a copy of the original photo that would help identify the car ?
Peter J3096 |
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Mike the M
United Kingdom
481 Posts |
Posted - 26/10/2016 : 19:18:24
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C. J. fryer entered the 1929 M.C.C. Sporting trial in an A.C. Accedes GU 506 and gained a First class award. He also entered the Exeter in the AC and gained a Silver medal.
It was not until 1932 that he is recorded as trialling again, this time in the M type, and again on the Exeter, but failed to gain an award.
He had better luck the following year in the Colmore trial in a Midget, presumably still the M type, and gained a Second class award.
The Lands End was next and better luck and gained a Premier award, but on the Gloucester trial it was again a Second, both times in the M type.
The registration number of the M type is not recorded, unfortunately!
Mike Dalby |
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Peter Croft
New Zealand
52 Posts |
Posted - 27/10/2016 : 01:03:43
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Thanks for the info Mike.
Clearly the picture emerging is that our man Mr Fryer did not own or at least compete in a J2 until Sept 1933. Which J is still a mystery. As per my last post it may have been Lobb's grey J2 but is it in the photo taken at the start of the One Hour Brooklands event ? Hence my request for a good quality photo
I don't think so looking at the copy available on Austin Harris's web page. If its not there then its another J2 and that's the big question I would like answered, which one ?.
Peter and J3096 |
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Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1487 Posts |
Posted - 27/10/2016 : 11:34:50
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Mike and Peter, Fryer was certainly driving his M Type, Registration number RX7455 at Chalfont Heights on the 20th May 1933 and therefore there is a fair chance that it was this car that he used in his other trials exploits.
I was not aware that Fryer was at one time General Secretary of the MGCC, presumably taking over from Allan Hess in 1933. I see that Hess was also driving at Chalfont Heights on the 20th May 1933, in what looks to me to be a grey J2 !. The car is believed to be J2005, Reg. number JB552 which Mike Hawke thought might well have been provided by the M.G. Car company when Hess was Gen Sec. and taken back from him when he left to become editor of "Speed" Magazine.
I wonder whether it might have been lent by the Works to the incoming Gen. Sec, Mr Fryer for his race at Brooklands in September 1933.
Pure conjecture on my part, I know, but if it was a "hack" car it could explain why the chassis files make no mention of it being sold to Mr Fryer.
Colin B. |
Edited by - Colin Butchers on 27/10/2016 11:37:05 |
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Peter Croft
New Zealand
52 Posts |
Posted - 28/10/2016 : 21:43:47
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Thanks Colin, Jeremy and Mike for your input
I looks as though we will never know, but the suggestion it may have been a works 'hack' car is a reasonable one. Clearly Mike Hawke could not link C.J. Fryer with a particular car, and if Mike couldn't we will have some difficulty doing so.
Final thought; Is C.J.Fryer related to A J Fryer, garage proprietor Uttoxeter ? A.J.Fryer was the last "registered keeper" of my car, selling it in August 1937.
Peter and J3096 |
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Vitesse
United Kingdom
234 Posts |
Posted - 31/10/2016 : 10:18:01
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If I've found the right chap on Ancestry, his full name was Colin John Fryer and he was born in Maidenhead on May 12th 1909, son of an 'engineer and contractor'. The 1911 census suggests they were pretty well-off as the household included a governess for his 12-year-old sister, a nurse for him, a cook and two maids.
In 1929, when he gained his Aviator's Certificate, his address was given as Holme Park, Sonning, Berkshire. Profession - Assistant Secretary. This is him:
He travelled to the US in September 1937 when he is described as a 'director', travelling to an address in Maryland. He had previously spent three months in California in 1930/31, when travel documents describe him as a 'consulting engineer' (aged 21!) This may also have been an extended honeymoon, as he had married in June 1930 and he was accompanied by his bride. This marriage seems to have failed in some way though.
He also spent some time in Canada during 1938. He's on the 1940 US census as a resident alien living in Manette WA (now a suburb of Bremerton), now re-married to a Canadian (in 1939 in Tacoma WA) and working as a paint salesman. At the time they married they were living in Seattle.
1950s and 60s city directories have him in Honolulu, as manager of the Dearborn Chemical Co. It appears he retired to Miami, although he died in Transylvania County, North Carolina on February 7th 1978.
I don't see any connection to a Mr Fryer of Uttoxeter though. |
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Mike the M
United Kingdom
481 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2016 : 18:31:32
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According to the Triple M Yearbook 2015, and Colin Butchers wonderful article on "MGs in Metro-land", C. J. Fryer's M type he was driving was registered RX 7455.
Strange that being a pilot in 1929, he did not come home and join the Air Force in 1939!
Mike Dalby |
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Vitesse
United Kingdom
234 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2016 : 19:14:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike the M
Strange that being a pilot in 1929, he did not come home and join the Air Force in 1939!
Mike Dalby
The RAF were remarkably sniffy about taking on civilian pilots at the beginning of the war. Reggie Tongue, who'd served in the Oxford University Air Squadron, had great difficulty in getting in and in the end - on Earl Howe's advice - he resorted to subterfuge, writing to the RAF telling them that the RNAS wanted him. Suddenly he was an RAF officer!
Living in Washington State, it would have made more sense for Fryer to join the Canadian forces - as quite a few US-resident Britons did. As an engineer he'd almost certainly have been in a non-combat role. As a pilot, unless he had a lot of hours on his logbook, his age would probably have been against him though.
He might have even enlisted in the British forces or as a civil servant and served exclusively in the US with one of the military missions. On the West Coast there was even a US equivalent of the Home Guard. And later in the war, as a resident 'friendly alien' he would have been eligible for the US draft, although I didn't see any evidence that he was actually drafted. |
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Brian Kelly
USA
526 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 03:43:36
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If this helps:
Here are a couple of photos of RX 7455.
Brian.
MG M 847 cc. Vehicle Reg. No. RX7455. Event Entry No: 27. Place: Chalfont St.Peter. B.O.C. Hillclimb. Date: 25.5.35.
MG M 847 cc. Vehicle Reg. No. RX7455. Event Entry No: 174. Driver: Fryer, C.J. Award: Premier. Place: Beggars Roost, Exmoor. M.C.C. Lands End Trial. Date: 14/15.4.33. |
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Peter Croft
New Zealand
52 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 09:14:53
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Continued thanks to all who have been contributing.
Its a pity that C.J.Fryer was not a Staffs. man or we could get a link between C.J. and A.J Fryer.
I do however like the timing of his appearance in a J2, that is September 1933 (J 3096 was sold August 33) and then his departure to the States, Sept 1937 and J3096 car appearing in A J Fryers for sale in late July 1937. ( in August it was sold to Gordon Wheeler from Christchurch, New Zealand )
Photo of J3096 after arriving in NZ ( Photo used as a table mat at an MG meeting)
Peter and J3096
Peter
The right way up now.
Nick
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Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1487 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 10:42:10
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Excellent pictures Brian, but the captioning has got a bit "base over apex" as the expression goes. The top picture is of friend Fryer coming out of the top of Beggars Roost on the 1932 Lands End Trial (Comp number 174) whilst the second picture is of him at Chalfont on the 20th May 1933 (Comp number 27). Fryer did not compete in the Chalfont meeting held on the 25th May of that year. I do not doubt that incorrect dates might appear on the original photographs, but the photographer, W J Brunell has been known to get things wrong from time to time. Doesn't alter the fact that the photographs are truly splendid.
Colin B. |
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Brian Kelly
USA
526 Posts |
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PeterL
United Kingdom
1722 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 21:24:21
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| fuel tank flat not curved... |
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