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Dan F
USA
845 Posts |
 Posted - 23/02/2008 : 21:08:21
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What is the proper shade of black for the frame, axle etc on a P-type. It appears to be somewhere in between a flat and a satin. Thanks for your help.
Dan |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2008 : 13:18:57
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The chassis were originally painted with a product known as "Chassis Black" - I am not sure if it is still available.
Quite a few people now have the chassis frames powder coated.
This is more durable and hard wearing than the paint and does not look too shiny like some gloss or satin finish paints.
I personally use Hammerite Smooth Satin Finish black paint.
This is a bit too shiny but fades quite quickly and looks quite acceptable.
However if I was to rebuild the car - I would have the frame powder coated (mostly because I have a colleague who owes me a favour and can do it for me at little cost).
It is important that you have any repairs done to the chassis and mask any threaded components carefully prior to the powder coat process becaus it is very difficult to remove once it is baked on.
However the perpetual rebuild is easier than the full rebuild so I will continue with my pot of black paint.
Hope this helps
Regards David |
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tholden
United Kingdom
1638 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2008 : 15:18:16
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Chassis black can still be purchased. I believe Trimite still make a chassis black and there is one in the Frost cat which I used recently to paint some model steam engine parts at my sons club. That one is basically a high pigment black gloss enamel - not particularly nice to use.
At the works the chassis were usually spray painted with what appeared to be one quick coat of black gloss enamel. Original chassis I have stripped have all been painted with this but there may have been variations in the quality or type of paint used dependant on the supplier at any one time. There was no primer or undercoat applied - not that I have ever found. The original close up works photos I have show the finish quite clearly but it was not very good and usually quite chipped by the end of the line. It may not have been a very high gloss but was definately nearer to gloss than a satin finish. Whatever they used sure stuck well because I still have a chassis with its original paint - never been stripped and it does not come off easily. In those days enamels had a high lead based pigment which made it pretty tough stuff. You could also order a chassis painted in a colour rather than black, at extra cost.
I prefer not to use Hammerite since it seems to disolve in modern fuels. I also do not like powder coating which for me does not look right. I find it gives a rather modern plastic appearance but that is just a personal view - every man to his own. I repair, shot blast and then apply a coat of Bondaprimer. Then a coat of good quality undercoat, flat off and finish with a good quality synthetic enamel ( preferably two coats ). One of the best finishing enamels I have found since the demise of " real" coach enamels like Valrex etc is Blackfriars QD90 which is oil and petrol resistant and runs out to a lovely smooth finish if brushed but can also be sprayed.
Terry Holden |
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Dan F
USA
845 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2008 : 23:25:30
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Guys, thanks for the response. Dennis, I am using Eastwoods Extreme chasis black and likeing it. I just didn't want it to be too shiny.
Thanks,
Dan |
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davies
United Kingdom
699 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2008 : 09:58:31
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| With respect to David's reference to Hammerite I have found that non-leaded petrol will attack Hammerite paint with a vengence. Regard Rich. |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2008 : 13:52:13
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I have to say I have not had a problem with Hammerite and petrol - having said that I have not needed to paint anywhere near where fuel might drip!
Hammerite is a oil based paint and therefore would indeed be prone to attack from petrol.
That said my car has never been mistaken for a concours example and all I make an effort to do is to make it look tidy at the begining of each year.
I noticed with interest the other day that the Trimite Chassis Black is available at my local wholesaler so I am going to use this for my annual titivation this year (it was the same price as the hammerite as well).
I totally agree with Terry Holden about the powder coating - but from a selfish point of view the finish is so good and does not need as much annual maintenance.
The original paint was indeed a very high lead content - far higher than current legislation allows, that coupled with a very generous cout of red oxide paint and the fact they were left to fully harden prior to shipment to the production line made for a very good finish.
Also of course - they were painting on to virgin metal which is always easier than making do over 70 odd years of salt and other corrosion related damage.
If you really want to annoy the originalists - paint the chassis in silver leaf like the show car chassis frames they did in 34.
Alternatively have it nylon coated.
Regards David |
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Cymber
United Kingdom
966 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2008 : 20:43:35
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I used to work in a hospital engineering department and we found plastic coated equipment very unsatisfactory in wet conditions. Water gets in through any pinholes or cracks and rust spreads rapidly underneath the coating. I have seen pieces the size of saucers peel off when there was little external evidence of trouble.
Powder coating chassis is not good engineering practice, when you bolt things to it there is a thick layer of relatively soft material between the parts which does not give a saisfactory joint, they should be metal to metal. In my opinion there should not be anything more than a thin coating of primer between the parts and paint after assembly.
I agree with Terry QD90 is excellent it can be applied very casually and still it runs out to a nice smooth finish.
Maurice Blakey. |
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Peter Green
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2008 : 23:17:47
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Dan,
I do not know the answer to your question but I can tell you what I have had done over the years by my local stove enamellers. After the chassis has been shot blasted it has an etch primer sprayed on to it as soon as possible, it is surprising how quickly a shot blasted chassis can go rusty (overnight in some conditions). This is followed with an undercoat and finally a two pack polyurethane semi gloss top coat.
Three years ago when I was repairing some accident damage on K3011Æs chassis the stove enamellers inadvertently painted it in gloss which I thought was to shiny so I lightly rubber the whole chassis with a very fine Scotch pad soaked on WD 40 and to be honest the result was just right (in my mind) a smooth dullish finish. The polyurethane paint is very hard wearing and is not affected with petrol and oil.
I also agree with Terry Holden that Bonda Rust Primer (distributed by Bondaglass Vos Ltd, Beckenham, Kent) is excellent and so is BlackfriarÆs QD 90 gloss paint. I do not like Hammerite at all but I know some people who do like it, and I do not like powder coating, although the quality is better than it was a few years ago.
Peter.
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