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MH
Germany
199 Posts |
 Posted - 23/02/2022 : 15:05:24
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Hello, I‘m looking for current colour names/codes/numbers with manufacturer of former „Abingdon grey“ (KC53) and „Brooklands grey“ (126)?
I would appreciate any help.
Thanks from Germany and best regards
Manfred
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merlinart
United Kingdom
149 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2022 : 19:59:52
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This is very interesting to me.
Where does this chart come from, is it genuine, and is it possible to see it completely please.
My PA was originally red, so would it have been Carmine or Saratoga?
Also, what is the correct reference for "old English white" please.
Maybe the extended chart shows all colours and original references?
Any help will be much appreciated.
Arthur |
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Onno
Netherlands
1050 Posts |
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Oz34
United Kingdom
2560 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2022 : 20:27:20
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Probably Arthur the entire body including the front apron, bonnet top and fuel tank, Saratoga and the wings and running boards only, Carmine.
The shades in this view are not necessarily correct, but she does look rather lovely doesn't she?
Cheers,
Dave |
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Oz34
United Kingdom
2560 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2022 : 20:40:42
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Arthur, if you look at the duo tone note on the table Onno has linked to it says that the tank is dark. I would absolutely disagree with that. I think there is no better guide than these two factory shots of a duo tone PA:
IMHO a dark tank also looks very "heavy" as do the often seen dark front apron and bonnet top.
On the other hand, as regards these two latter, I think you are intending to have cycle wings? The Cream Crackers did have dark apron and bonnet top, probably because with cycle wings there was felt to be insufficient brown to make the "MG colours" statement.
Cheers,
Dave |
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Bruce Sutherland
United Kingdom
1578 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2022 : 21:25:14
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Dave,
Regarding two-tone paint schemes on MMM's, I had this answer from Mike Allison:
"I am glad you asked this one, as most people seem to think that a colour break at the waistline is the way to go for the Midgets, but this only applied to the N-Magnettes. The NA having the lighter shade lower, and the NB higher.
All the Midgets were as you described, body tub lighter shade, and wings darker. The apron, tank and so forth all match the wings. I was told by Jack Butler, foreman of the paint shop in my time, that the reason for this was that the wings, apron, and tank were painted at Abingdon, and the body tub in Coventry! Colour matching in those days was done by batches of paint, and it was never easy for the two factories to mix IDENTICAL colours. The radiator slats on the two-tone cars were to the darker colour. All parts associated with the chassis were black, except the heavy parts of the spare-wheel carrier, which should be the darker shade.
MG were one of the pioneers in this country of two-tone colour schemes, this being a feature of the original Bullnose panelled (as opposed to fabric) saloons, the tourers having engine-turned and polished lower panels.
I hope this helps.
Good luck!
Mike Allison"
Bruce. (PB0564) |
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Oz34
United Kingdom
2560 Posts |
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Oz34
United Kingdom
2560 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2022 : 10:05:33
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Bruce, a further thought overnight.
While the explanation of the difficulty of colour matching parts painted at Abingdon with those painted by Carbodies is eminently plausible, I should have thought it unlikely that the bonnet would have been sent to Carbodies to be painted with the body tub, so the mismatch of those two parts was very possible and would stick out far more than a contrast between the wings etc and the body.
One also wonders how colour was matched on cars painted all one shade?
Dave |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6152 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2022 : 10:31:55
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I’m with Dave on this and I fear Mike Allison is mistaken. I have never seen a factory photo showing the tank and valance in the darker colour. While the factory photos Dave has posted are publicity ones, and so might need to be treated with some degree of caution this factory floor photo shows a J2 in the background with the tank painted in the lighter colour.
And this one shows the light coloured front valance.
Of course these are Js, not P Types, but I don’t believe there’s any reason to think that the combination changed with the model.
Simon J
J3437 |
Edited by - Simon Johnston on 24/02/2022 10:32:34 |
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merlinart
United Kingdom
149 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2022 : 17:41:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Onno
Perhaps som exploration of this website or a book would be helpful
https://www.triple-mregister.org/uploads/retro/paint%20colours.pdf
As for those paint codes perhaps Koen Struik can help as he has good contacts in the paint world ;)
Onno "J,D,M" Könemann
Thanks Onno.
Arthur |
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merlinart
United Kingdom
149 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2022 : 17:47:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Oz34
Probably Arthur the entire body including the front apron, bonnet top and fuel tank, Saratoga and the wings and running boards only, Carmine.
The shades in this view are not necessarily correct, but she does look rather lovely doesn't she?
Cheers,
Dave
Thanks Dave
Looking at the copy of my original build sheet for PA 0948, body 597/1359 it states red body colour, red upholstery, so I'm guessing red all over so perhaps entirely Saratoga red?
Currently the whole car is old English white, and when the new body arrives, I'm thinking of OEW and red cycle wings, though I like the Cream Cracker colours and the front cycle wings are valanced.
Arthur |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6152 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2022 : 18:13:46
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Arthur,
Car colours were seemingly often classified simply as 'red' or 'green' or 'blue' with no indication as to whether they were duotone or not. So your car may have been duotone, or it may have been painted in just one of the two colours. If you have the original body you might find a flake or two of red paint somewhere that might help. I knew that my car was a single colour and found enough traces of green paint on the wings to make a pretty good colour match.
Simon J
J3437 |
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Bruce Sutherland
United Kingdom
1578 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2022 : 22:56:07
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It would seem presumptuous to contradict those who worked in Abingdon, all be it a decade or so later than MMM production in the later 1930’s – Mike Allison and paint shop foreman Jack Butler.
“………I was told by Jack Butler, foreman of the paint shop in my time, that the reason for this was that the wings, apron, and tank were painted at Abingdon, and the body tub in Coventry!
Colour matching in those days was done by batches of paint, and it was never easy for the two factories to mix IDENTICAL colours. The radiator slats on the two-tone cars were to the darker colour. All parts associated with the chassis were black, except the heavy parts of the spare-wheel carrier, which should be the darker shade.”
In my own motor car manufacturing and engineering experience, publicity photographs of early production vehicles frequently pre-dated detail changes/modifications subsequently made to facilitate series/volume production.
This would explain all the Abingdon-made components painted a different colour shade as a manufacturing expedient for the alternate two-tone to that of the body tub and bonnet supplied painted from Carbodies.
I will follow the MG Abingdon paint-shop foreman’s advice.
Bruce. (PB0564) |
Edited by - Bruce Sutherland on 24/02/2022 23:00:02 |
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sven
Sweden
434 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2022 : 08:58:19
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I agree that publicity pictures are not always the same as the production cars.
Malcolm Green's book "The 6 cylinder cars " has a good photo (p 51) of the 10 L2 Magnas used at Brooklands for a celebrity race in August 1933, so these cars were quite clearly production cars.
In the reproduced picture car number 7 shows a good view of the rear part.
My conclusion is that wings, running boards and headlamps were painted the darker shade and the rest was lighter shade. On L types at least.
Kind regards
Sven
L2039 and L0671
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Edited by - sven on 25/02/2022 08:58:40 |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6152 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2022 : 09:06:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Sutherland
I will follow the MG Abingdon paint-shop foreman’s advice.
I bet that’s the same bloke that said that the J2s had polished alloy fins on the brake drums. 
Simon J
J3437
Edited by Nick 25/2/2022 |
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Oz34
United Kingdom
2560 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2022 : 10:24:57
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Clearly Bruce how you wish your car to appear is entirely your own business.
You now mention "the body tub and bonnet supplied painted from Carbodies." This as I suggested earlier would be the only feasible way to achieve their colour match however, have you any proof that the bonnet was in fact shipped to Carbodies? If it was, why could not wings, apron and tank also be shipped? I have to say I think it is unlikely and yet, again as I mentioned previously, with a car painted in only one shade, surely it would be essential?
As we all know, the chassis number is stamped on the bonnet hinge. Perhaps if body and bonnet have been colour matched, it would have been helpful also to have the body number so stamped?
Dave |
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