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Dan F
USA
845 Posts |
 Posted - 29/01/2009 : 02:15:25
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I am working on the brakes on my P type and have 3 questions. First, what is the path of the front brake cables once they pass through the frame. Currently using the preexisting holes in the frame, one cable connects to the frame on the side of the channel (frame) and the other cable to the bottom flange of the channel (frame). What is correct ? Secondly, I have a bracket which I believe is somehow associated with one of the brake cables.It looks like it holds the cable in place keeping it away from something. It has the following numbers on it 4763 and 1962. I am not sure where it goes and whether it's original or not. Lastly, the passenger rear brake cam had a cover with a screw through it to tighten it down. What would be the reason for this and why only one ?? I do have some pictures if anyone needs further explanation.
Thanks in advance for your help,
Dan |
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Nick Feakes
USA
3376 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2009 : 15:17:22
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Hi Dan
I suggest you post your pictures of the brake cables on the forum. You are bound to get help then (picture worth a thousand words?)
Nick |
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MaGic_GV
United Kingdom
868 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2009 : 17:32:44
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Dan, looked at cables and both square mounting blocks bolt onto the side of the chassis channel. I am 90% sure this is as it was when I first changed the cables but it was about 40 years ago - when I was but a youth. I don't have a bracket as you describe, but the car was already 30 odd years old then so it most likely was discarded in the name of convenience, if it ever existed.
With luck I have attached a picture of my front brake assembly, which, although very dirty, shows a screw down greaser attached to the brake cam - is this what you have?
If so, you are supposed to fill it with grease give it a turn now and then (technical term)to feed grease to the bush. Nipples tend to be over used and soak your brakes in grease! You probably have only one because the others wore out! You should feel a resisting stop every few degrees, though on mine any resisting mechanism has worn out. Bit like me really - the resistance being worn out I mean!
cheers
Graham
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Edited by - MaGic_GV on 29/01/2009 17:48:24 |
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ags
United Kingdom
275 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2009 : 19:58:47
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Hi Graham,
Your memory is quite correct, the front cables should pass through the upright part of the chassis channel. You can see this reasonably clearly in the chassis photographs on page 109 of Mike's bible, "The Magic of MG". The vertical plan view photograph gives the fore and aft location, so that inspecting the area just in front of the rear of the front tyre in the side view, you can see the outer of the Bowden cable about in the centre of the outside of the chassis channel. The actual mounting plate on the outer face of the channel is obscured by the tyre, but this has to be on the outside to meet up with the central lubrication piping. (As an aside if there is one area that demands the use of 140 SAE oil rather than grease it is for the brake cables.) The only brackets which I can remember in the braking system are the ones which control the lie of the cables along the rear springs, which secure to the front clamp on the spring leaves. Again check the rear of the vertical photo on page 109. There are two alloy blocks however which keep the cables (both brake and electrical) from straying where they pass inside the channel past the lower sides of the firewall. The numbers which were quoted in the post meant nothing to me, but a quick check of the P parts list shows that 1869 is the "Aluminium draught excluder block O/S" and 1962 is the same "N/S". In other words what I have called alloy blocks above. (Well, that is something that I have learnt today, because I had never noticed these numbers on the parts before.) The two are different because one has a large channel for the heavy cable to the starter motor. The clip for the rear brake cables is part number S2/20. No other clips for the brakes are shown on the parts list apart from those that hold the return spring for the cross shaft, though a clip of various patterns may be found on the brake pedal push rod to operate the brake light switch.
The right name of the screw arrangement on the pivot of the brake cam is a Stauffer greaser, and I would agree with Graham that they are essential on all the cams rather than using nipples. (Though once again I had never noticed any particular resistance to screwing up the cap apart from when it is clear that you are actually moving the grease out of the reservoir to the bearing face - what an educational day!) I tended to screw the caps down till I felt the grease move and then another quarter turn, for no real reason except that it "felt right".
Back to the original question, I would be very dubious about the run of the cable that has been mounted on the base of the chassis. Might it be an attempt to use the wrong cable, ie a back cable on the front? The mounting blocks are located differently on the cables for front and back, and time sorting out the four anonymous cables before you start to fit them will save a deal of head scratching and frustration later on. (For enlightenment see earlier posts here on similar topics.)
More technical ramblings from
Andrew Smith MMM571 |
Edited by - ags on 29/01/2009 20:10:26 |
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Dan F
USA
845 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2009 : 03:11:07
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Guys:
Attached are the photos you requested. This is my first time so I hope it works:
Driver's Side Front cable:
Passenger side front cable:
Cam Clip
Brake Cable Block ?
PLease email with questions and thanks,
Dan |
Edited by - Dan F on 30/01/2009 03:25:31 |
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ags
United Kingdom
275 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2009 : 19:47:55
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Hi Dan,
The photos which you have posted came over loud and clear, and the lower one does show one of the alloy blocks which I was describing. The one for the other side is similar but with only one slot. The clip that you call a cam clip is similar to the ones that keep the rear cables tidily along the rear springs, except that those are a little longer on the free end and have another hole for the bolt through the U clip on the spring leaves.
I was slightly confused in my reply because I thought that you were referring to the larger mounting plates which pass the whole cable through the frame rather than the end adjusters which you have shown. I am sure that you have noticed, but I believe that the one of your end mountings has been fixed in the wrong hole in the frame. The driver's side cable should be mounted in the hole above the one in which you have shown it. (The correct hole is visible in your picture.) This will straighten out the pull direction of the inner cable from the cross shaft pulley into the outer cable. As I am sure you realise the two big enemies of mechanical brake systems are lost motion and friction, and repositioning the adjuster block will help reduce the second one. (And possibly reduce a tendency with your pictured setup for the brakes to pull to the passenger's side, rather dodgy on your side of the road I would think.) You may find that the lock nuts for the cable adjusters nearest to the cross shaft may have to be positioned either on the cross shaft side or the outer cable side of the end mounting block. I cannot give specific advice as it all depends on the exact lengths of your cables and also where you intend to do individual cable adjustments. I tended to do my adjuatments at the wheel ends of the cable (easier to get at) and so the cross shaft ends were done up reasonably tight. This meant that the lock nuts could go in the positions in which you have them (outer cable side of the blocks) but marginally more adjustment (the thickness of the locknut) is available if needed to slacken the cables if you have the lock nuts on the cross shaft side of the block. It is no big deal to change them; unscrew the cable adjuster until it unscrews from the block and then the inner cable can come free through the slot in the block, after that run the locknut down the adjuster till it comes off the end and dangles on the inner cable, replace the inner cable, screw the adjuster back into the block and when you have the adjustment correct tighten the lock nut. For obvious reasons this can only be done with the adjusters on the other ends of the cable backed off, or before the brake lever at the wheel end is connected.
More technical ramblings from
Andrew Smith MMM571 |
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