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Gordon
United Kingdom
691 Posts |
 Posted - 27/02/2010 : 09:13:42
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Bruce,
As I am sure you know a lot of work was done on water injection to cool the charge with much work done by Ricardo in the 1930's. So at least this technology was understood in the middle to late 30's and was applied to aeroengines. Do you know if ayone applied it to a motor car in those days? Since it was applied to aeroengines and the VSCC has several aeroengined cars competing I suggest it is logical that it should be allowed provided 1930's technology was used in making the system. Snce the McEvoy works were in Derby I wonder if he had friends in the Experimental Department at Rolls-Royce own the road!?
Certainly water injection in a blown engine works very well and keeps the temprature down at the end of the compression strkoke significantly.
The same argument of prior use can be made for antiroll bars as these were fitted again in the 1930's to American cars and I suspect was well known to Rolls-Royce.
Gordon |
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Chris Bucknell
Australia
107 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2010 : 11:16:18
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I can confirm that Gerhard is quite correct. This car is RA0259 as was owned by Bobbie Baird (editor of Belfast Telegraph). Bobbie's team drove the car and I believe his NE direct from the factory to Ireland on the roads. Bobbie crashed the R-Type on the way, which was to be an unfortunate characteristic of his driving career. The car is shown with the McEvoy Intercooler that was fitted in the middle of 1935. I believe this photo is at the Limerick Grand Prix as the car only carried number 8 for that event. Note Baird's skull cap (not going to call it a helmet) on the top of the bonnet. The stripe is not Belleview Garage, Barry, but it does raise a very interesting question. Although Baird competed as part of an MG Factory team on at least 1 occasion I am not aware of any association with Belleview. All the R's weren't painted with stripes though and in fact the stripes vary from car to car. So what was the story here?
Gerhard the photo is I am afraid August 1935 not 1937.
I am also very curious about the "postcard" description of the photo. Was it mass produced as a postcard? Also interested to know how Simon's Dad came upon this photo. Did he live in Ireland? Was he there at the Limerick GP that year? |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6119 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2010 : 15:14:20
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Chris,
The photo is indeed on a commercial postcard but as to how my Dad came upon it I have no idea. We live in Northern Ireland and my Dad was a keen motor inthusiast and bought a J2 in 1933 so he must have seen the postcard on sale somewhere and recognised it as an MG. But it would obviously have been on sale some time after the Limerick GP. Perhaps the Belfast Telegraph produced the postcard?
Anyway, I'm happy to discover that the car pictured is in such good hands and probably the best place for the postcard is with the car. So if you let me have your postal address I'll pack it carefully and send it to you.
Simon
P.S. Bobbie Baird was never editor of the Belfast Telegraph but was the scion of the family that owned the newspapers and became managing director in 1951 upon the retirement of his father. |
Edited by - Simon Johnston on 27/02/2010 15:22:58 |
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ags
United Kingdom
275 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2010 : 15:59:13
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Hi All,
This is going to be a long way off topic, but the McEvoy Intercooler looks nearly identical to the individual sections of an original Hillman/Chrysler Imp Sport oil cooler, a pair of these sections being mounted horizontally between upstand tubes at the rear of the Imp's engine compartment. (Immediately in front of the slats in the Sport engine cover).
As has been said these sections did consist of copper loops penetrating a steel tube with the length, I would think, of the loops inside and out adjusted to correspond with the heat transfer characteristics of oil and air. I did have a couple of these in my parts store until July last year when they were sold when I disposed of my Ginetta G15 and all its bits to finance the PB rebuild. As a result I cannot show a picture to illustrate the similarity
Now though there are some thirty or forty years between the uses, Rootes Comps. Dept. in Coventry was not a million miles from Derby.
Hmmmm, goes off into a reverie about his favoured Triple-M car!
Andrew Smith MMM571 |
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Ron Grant
United Kingdom
160 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2010 : 16:08:16
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| Bobbie Bairds mechanic is still alive and can tell a "good story", his name is Wilber Mcgee (not sure of the spelling)and lives in the North West. A briliant body man, but also good with the spanners from all accounts. |
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McEvoy
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2010 : 18:35:38
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Gerhard nice to be surprised by you rather than the other way round on R type matters. I didn't know that my old 0258 was fitted with a McEvoy intercooler it must have been during the latter part of '35 prior to the fitting of the twin cam head in early '36. When I had the car which I believe was fitted with the original front cowl there was no indication of a cut out to accomodate the intercooler and refering to my many photographs I cannot see any witness of a hole. What will interest Gordon is the clear evidence of the fitting of an anti-roll bar at the front with the unmistakeable cut-outs in the front cowl. The bar was not fitted to the car when I purchased it in early '63 and cannot be sure therefore of the exact date when it was fitted and by whom. I believe if anything the bar was fitted prior to the importation of the car in 1951 by Toulmin Cars. Does anyone have any further information on this modification and Gerhard do you have any photos or written information concerning the intercooler fitting to this car. One other interesting mod to this car when purchased was the fitting of a 2 stage rootes supercharger assembly - it would seem that this particular car was a real guinea pig for mods but I guess the intercooler mod was made redundant by tipping the alcohol can a bit more!
Bob |
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Ray Masters
United Kingdom
568 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2010 : 20:09:01
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| Yes , Ron, as you probably know I know Wilbert McKee very well & we both live in Stockport. He is now in his mid-80s but is still very much involved with cars having recently restored and now runs a Buckler 90. He always has a fund of stories to tell, it is hard to imagine how one man has packed so much into a lifetime. If anybody wishes to get in touch with him I can probably help. |
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Cymber
United Kingdom
966 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2010 : 21:38:33
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Gerhard, I suspect you might be wrong about the wires penetrating a hose. The photograph appears to show the end of a hose secured to a metal pipe at the end of the wires. I have seen liquid cooler tubes, smaller in diameter than this one, which have wire coils, presumeably copper, wound round them and soldered in place to increase the surface area on the outside. The photograph is not very clear but the different angles of the 'radial' wires suggests that they are part of an oval helix which makes this a larger diameter version of the tubes I remember and those of the Hillman Imp oil cooler.
Maurice Blakey.
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McEvoy
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
Posted - 27/02/2010 : 23:04:48
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One further point regarding R 0258 does anyone have any record of Keith Elliott who is mentioned in Mike Hawke's J2 book as having raced 0258. Who was/is he and when did he race 0258 and where?
Bob |
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Chris Bucknell
Australia
107 Posts |
Posted - 28/02/2010 : 02:07:56
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At the further risk of taking this thread in even a further redirection.
Simon, I am very grateful of your kind offer re the postcard. It is exceedingly generous.
Next I am also curious about your comment about Bobbie Baird not being the editor of Belfast Telegraph. I can't recall who led me down that path. I certainly understood that the Baird's owned the paper and that is why I thought it was consistent that Bobbie may have been appointed editor (to get the swing of things). But I will take your word for it. There is a book on Baird in the making so will be interested to see what that says.
PS I have some friends who run an Imp in Tarmac Rally's here in Australia. It is the quickest imp you have ever seen. I will ask them about the cooler and advise.
Chris |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6119 Posts |
Posted - 28/02/2010 : 07:33:16
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Chris,
Bobbie Baird was definitely never editor of the 'Tele' (as we call it here in Belfast). From 1924 to 1937 the editor was Thomas Moles, from 1937 to 1939 it was John Sayers and from 1939 to 1953 it was Robert Sayers (brother of John). The choice of editor was a serious matter for the Bairds as the 'Tele' was a substantial newspaper in those days (not that it isn't still a good newspaper today) and the position would not have been entrusted to a young man who wasn't an experienced journalist. Sir Robert Baird and his half brother Sir William would never have practised nepotism when it came to the editorship of their beloved 'Tele' which in those days was a forceful voice for the Unionist cause.
Simon
P.S. The postcard will be in the post to you tomorrow |
Edited by - Simon Johnston on 28/02/2010 07:47:44 |
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Gerhard Maier
Germany
873 Posts |
Posted - 28/02/2010 : 17:52:23
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Yes, Maurice and Ron,
you must be right, that the pipe between the supercharger and the inlet manifold of the McEvoy Inter-Cooler system, by no means could have been a rubber tube, because of the high blower pressure used. Will we ever see a original one again ?
Bob,
the text below is to answer your question about information on which R-types the Inter-Cooler was fitted. I found the article in „The Sports Car“, which is a never ending source of MMM-info!
Gerhard
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BobRichards RIP
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2010 : 16:11:15
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Quote from Gordon Higginbottom:
'Snce the McEvoy works were in Derby I wonder if he had friends in the Experimental Department at Rolls-Royce own the road!?'
I can confirm that he did, as in the early 1960s I owned a 1932 J2 that had been much-modified and blown by a previous owner called Frank Stark who was a development engineer at Rolls-Royce in Derby and I'm told, collaborated with McEvoy on superchargers.
I would love to know if anyone has any more information on this as I would like to learn more about Frank Stark and that J2.The car was owned by Frank from 1934 to about 1958 then passed to David Gale followed by myself in 1961. It had a tuned PB engine, C-type gearbox, reputably ex Parnell and several other juicy mods. David Gale showed me photos of it racing at Silverstone.
After my ownership up to about 1963, the J2 was owned by Jerry Skeavington and eventually after a rebuild I think it went to John Joynes. It was originally registerd TV7154 but lost this reg during Jerry's ownership. I dont know its current reg or chassis number.
I dont know any more about Frank Stark's association with McEvoy. Do any of you? |
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Ron Grant
United Kingdom
160 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2010 : 17:40:03
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Bob,
I first got to know "Jes" Skeavington at the time he was selling this car. He had had it re-pannelled as a J4 body, no doors and he had had it supercharged, but could not get it reliable, having gone bang at Silverstone, some time previously.
My understanding was that he sold it to somebody in USA.
Jes is stall around but is now heavily into his racing Austin 7's.
Ron Grant |
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Colin McLachlan
United Kingdom
990 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2010 : 18:51:18
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Bob,
I had the pleasure of living along the road from Keith Elliott in Dirleton, East Lothian some years ago - he has been dead some time now. I believe he campaigned an NA in trials as part of the "Highlanders" team. George Cooper visited him several times before he died, and now has the original "Highlanders" badge fitted to the bonnet of his J2/PAs. No doubt George will be able to tell you more.
Colin. |
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