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Roy
Sweden
17 Posts |
 Posted - 22/07/2010 : 09:32:01
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I am very happy to have finished the restoration on my MG N-type offset singleseater made for John Dugdale and later owned and raced by Rivers Fletcher . It was converted at Bellevue Garage Racing Ltd. In winter 1936/37 by Mr Wilky Wikinson . And now Charles and Bob Jones at Baynton Jones made my an new racing engine at the old spec . 1086cc High comp.ratio 12,6:1 for running on E85 Ethanol , modified inlet manifold with 2 SU HV4 . I have entered and finished 3 races so far this summer . It is with great plessure and joy to have the opportunity to own and race this historic MG . If anyone have any photos or information about this MG please let me know .
Looking forward to take it to England for race or meeting.
See you
Best Regards
Roy Palm
Sweden
 
 
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George Eagle
United Kingdom
3237 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2010 : 11:37:33
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Hello Roy
Congratulations, the car looks magnificent.
We look forward to seeing it race in the UK, perhaps at next year's MG Silverstone meeting where the Register will be celebrating the 50th anniversary? 
Regards
George Eagle
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Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1487 Posts |
Posted - 23/07/2010 : 09:51:39
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Hello Roy,
It is nice to see the photographs of your car and to know that it is in good hands. As I expect you know, there is a great deal - in fact at least three complete chapters - in Alec Rivers Fletcher's book "M.G.s Past and Present" and it was obviously one of R-Fs favourite cars.
I hope that the chassis has been lengthened now since Mr Monkhouse "improved" it !
Best wishes,
Colin B. |
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Chris Bucknell
Australia
107 Posts |
Posted - 23/07/2010 : 11:50:51
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HI Roy,
The car looks great. I am curious about decision to go with E85 fuel. Maybe others in the forum are as well. Maybe you can set out you thinking?
Thanks,
Chris |
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Robin Hamblett
United Kingdom
534 Posts |
Posted - 23/07/2010 : 13:37:24
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Hi Roy
Please can you mail these pictures to me, to go in the Register file and to upload to the Members cars section of the website.
Regards
Robin
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 23/07/2010 : 14:43:35
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Roy
It is such a pleasure to see this old car back looking the way it did (and in my own opinion should) look in its heyday.
So nice that it is again unblown and on narrow tyres.
The comment by Colin regards the way in which the chassis was shortened by Peter Monkhouse was also raised by "Rivers" when the car was rebuilt in the nineties by Will Corry.
Rivers believed that the shortened chassis was a very bad idea and urged Will to increase the frame length back to the original - which I am sure he did.
The car stayed a short while in my own garage while it was prepared for sale and I helped my Dad get it running again.
The car had quite a high state of tune running on three carburretors and with a high compression - sadly the next owner almost immeadiately fitted a blower so we never got to see the car run in anger.
I am so glad the car has run well for you Roy and wish you all the best for the future - this car will certainly give you a LOT of fun.
Regards David |
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Rainier
Netherlands
160 Posts |
Posted - 23/07/2010 : 15:37:21
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Hi Roy,
What a great car, hope to see it at MGLive next year!
I am also very curious about the E85 fuel. I heard some horror stories about the corrosiveness and the de-greasing characteristics of alcohol in these high concentrations. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have read somewhere that the methanol and ethanol fuels from the thirties where mixtures with approximately 10-15 % alcohol and the remainder petrol? Please share your experiences with us.
Regards,
Rainier |
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peterb
Australia
55 Posts |
Posted - 24/07/2010 : 03:50:51
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| Hi, great looking car, seems to have an L type alloy cam / rocker cover, so where do you refill the engine with oil [minor question], a credit to you and your rebuilders. Best wishes Peterb |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 26/07/2010 : 10:00:31
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Pre-War Racing Fuels:
MG used 2 racing fuels - both methanol based.
Fuel before the war was of a very low quality (around 65-85 ron) and MG started playing with alcohol fuels when they put the supercharger on EX120.
Originally they used straight methanol which was fine except that starting the engine from cold was always a pain and also running the engines on cold days made the engines prone to carb icing.
Hence they used to mix gasolene in the fuel - however alcohol and gasolene tend not to bind together so another catalyst was used to hold the mix together.
They commonly used a fuel mixture of 80 % methanol - 10 % gasolene and 10 % Acetone on the C type - J4 and K3 racing cars.
When the Gardener team went to Germany for the EX 135 records MG engineers were introduced (via Kolrausch I think?) to Herr Von Eberhorst (Chief engineer at Auto Union) who suggested they use a different fuel mixture in order to maximise the available horsepower.
Auto Union had been using very high boost pressures and found that introducing other "aromatic" components into the fuel.
As a result of information from Eberhorst MG were able to increase the boost pressure and horsepower - eventually achieving 146 bhp from the Q-R type 750 cc engine and around 200 from the 1100 cc K type.
Another sprint car built for E R Hall based on an N type chassis frame was built to attempt the outright record at Shelsley Walsh with a very large Zoller blower and a special twin choke SU carburrettor.
This engine was rumored to rev to 8000 rpm and produce prodigious horsepower.
Unfortunately the weather prevented Hall from taking the record although the car was quick - Mays' ERA was also faster in the years following.
MG had two main alcohol fuels:
MG1 - which was the 80% methanol 10% gasolene and 10% Acetone - this gained the soubriquet 80-10-10 and is the most common fuel mix.
MG2 - sprint and record cars plus the Q-R type - 80% methanol - 10% Gasolene - 5% Acetone 5% "DynaminA" - DynaminA was infact Nitro Methane.
Both these fuels also had around a generous capfull of castor oil added too.
Others played with fuel mixtures too - mainly because straight methanol is not an ideal fuel.
Methanol often has a lot of water in it - plus it does tend to increase engine wear.
This is why they added the oil to the fuel.
The most common mixture used now is 80% methanol and 20% toluene - although many other do still tend to just use straight methanol.
E85 is a bio ethanol based fuel made from plant alcohol.
The mixture has around the same balance of alcohol and toluene - but I would advise that a lubricant be added (like the castor oil) to prevent the corrosion.
Alcohol fuel is very much drier and colder than gasolene (which is why we use it) it has a lower latent heat of evaporation and burns at a lower combustion temperature.
This allows for more compression pressure, ignition advance and therefore horsepower.
Regards David |
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McEvoy
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
Posted - 28/07/2010 : 12:49:30
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Thanks for the interesting post David re. MG pre-war racing fuels. I hadn't realised until recently when your Dad put me right that MG used Nitromethane before the war perhaps it was the pseudonym by which it was called that foxed me.
Further to your post I looked up my letters from Robin Jackson in the '50s when he was advising on the R record runs and his suggestion for the nitromethane mix was of the order between 15% & 30%. Interestingly he was only able to give me information on using this fuel with the permission of Shell as he was under contract to them and I was under contract to Castrol and not willing to switch to Shell oil.
Just in case anyone is considering the use of nitromethane in their M or K3 note some of the dangers associated with it.
The exhaust will contain amounts of nitric acid in vapour form.
Nitromethane surprisingly perhaps, has a higher flash point than either petrol or methanol but like methanol burns almost unseen so you may have a backfire that is burning but unseen.
It is very shock sensitive so don't loose your temper when things aren't quite going right and you throw down the hammer or what ever, because if it hits a pool of nitro you'll not remember what it was you lost your temper about!
Alloy tanks etc. require scrupulous cleaning especially if they have been previously cleaned with an alkaline solution during a manufacturing or finishing process.
I recall a quote in a Drag racing book "Gasoline is for washing parts, alcohol is for drinking and nitro is for racing"
And by the way don't forget to increase the carb jet size almost by the same percentage increase as the percentage of nitro.
Enough of that back to topic, Roy not only are you happy to have finished your restoration but so are we all the car looks magnificent and we look forward to seeing it in the UK.
regards - Bob
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