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sam christie
United Kingdom
3101 Posts |
 Posted - 04/09/2011 : 23:12:32
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Can anyone enlarge on M-type RX 5971? It included a selection of features not normally seen all at the same time on one M-type.I understand that it was known as 'Shinio' and used at Brooklands to test some of the ideas for the Double Twelve cars.
It looks like 'RX' prefixed the registration numbers of several interesting MG's. Has anyone ever compiled a list of these and researched their historic significance?
Sam |
Edited by - sam christie on 04/09/2011 23:17:03 |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 12:11:26
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RX was the local prefix for the Abingdon area until around 1932-3 when the JB prefix took over.
The history of "Shinio" is well logged in Maintaining the Breed and had more to do with the JCC Relay race than the 12-12 race (which was the following year).
A team of M types won their class in the relay race with three basically standard cars.
"Shinio" was Reg Jackson's charge and he developed it over the weeks leading up to the race and afterwards.
The engine was built with great care and the amount of spit and polish used lead to the others in the workshop ragging Jackson about the amount of metal polish used - hence the name.
Jackson worked on the valve timing and breathing with H N Charles (the chief engineer) and it was said that the engine could be rotated to TDC and a quick flick would make it rotate for another full revolution (probably a bit of an exaggeration).
The work done on this engine lead to the development of the improved valve timing used on the 12/12 cars and the larger carburettor - however other developments were as a result of shortcommings on "Shinio" rather than actual developments from it.
More off Shinio found itself on EX120 than any other car I think - certainly in the early stages.
Maintaining the Breed is well worth a read and the stories are just great entertainment - also try Barrie Lyndons Circuit Dust, Grand Prix series.
Regards David |
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PeterL
United Kingdom
1723 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 12:11:27
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Some RX's are and some aren't, RX9981 was the works demonstrator F3 but disappointingly RX9619 was sold to someone in County Durham who wanted painted number plates!
Cheers
P
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Blue M
United Kingdom
1472 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 14:49:53
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Does anyone know the identity of the occupants in Sam's picture?
Ian |
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sam christie
United Kingdom
3101 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 22:09:26
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David my bedtime reading tonight will be 'Improving the Breed' which I must confess I have owned for some time but never actually read.
Can anyone say when RX 5971 was registered?
Sam |
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Mike the M
United Kingdom
481 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2011 : 21:37:10
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RX was the Berkshire registration office, and many "works" cars had that prefix, including the Beggars Roost car, RX 6795.(see front of the Triple M register book 2009 & 2010.)
RX 5971 was the Autocar road test car for 9 May 1930, and the picture show Harold Sydney Linfield, Editor of the Autocar, driving the car. Is the other the "Morris Publicity" man? (see Triple M year book 2010 p21) HSL also drove RX 6795 in various events. ( See Magic of the Marque p52)!
"Shinio" was used as the development car for the 12/12 and was driven by Robin R.Jackson on a 24 hr at full throttle test at Brooklands before the race.(See Brooklands Gazette Vol3 No. 1 - 1978) It was then taken to the track before the race for the drivers to practice on. The car was H.N. Charles' "company" car for a long time. (See HNC paper to the Institute of Automobile Engineers in 1935.)
There was a picture of Shinio at speed in a magazine at the time, but it did not show the registration/chassis number! It has never been confirmed which car was Shinio, and I had long discussions with Mike Hawke on the subject. I have often wondered if HNC, who was a keen photographer, ever took a picture of it! However, how many take pictures of their company car!
Mike Dalby |
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farley1
Canada
152 Posts |
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Blue M
United Kingdom
1472 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2011 : 14:38:32
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According to John Thornley in 'Maintaining the Breed', "shortly after the J.C.C Meeting (which was the June 1929 High Speed Trial) a car was placed at Jackson's disposal to 'play about with'." However it appears that RX 5971 was registered in 'late 1929'. It would be interesting to learn when the RX numbers first appeared, and the actual registration date of RX 5971. To be 'Shinio' it would need to be around June/July 1929 to tie in with John Thornley.
Ian |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2011 : 16:25:38
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Ian -
I dont think that the car in the photo is Shinio - but not just because the registration plate date is wrong, even this doesnt mean that Shinio didnt at some time carry this number plate.
Shinio may well have run around on trade plates for much of its life - only getting registered once it was sold.
It is also likely that the actual car was in reality 2 - 5 or more cars.
Remember these cars were of little value to the company unless sold to a customer - they didnt hold on to them for long if they could help it.
It was quite easy to swap a new standard engine back into a frame when the car was sold - Jacko keeping his development bits and fitting them to another chassis.
Tracing the history of cars before they left the factory is an uncertain practice.
The factory was trying to sell the Mark I at the time - the M type was of less interest to the bean counters who assumed that more money was to be made from "gentleman" spending more money on bigger cars.
With an M type you had the companies bargain basement product - they only made money out of them by selling them on and selling in quantity.
It wasnt until later on in 1930 that the bean counters were put right and that the company started to concentrate on the Midget.
I was incorrect about the JCC race and you are quite right it was the High Speed Trial and not the Relay Race that the Midgets got their debut.
The driver of the 12/12 replica during its development was though RJ Jackson (Jacko) not RR Jackson (he was working on other things at the time - mostly motorcycles) Jacko was an accomplished driver and engineer and he developed the Midget with help from others in the works.
The development of the Midget was kept very quiet and Jacko got very little help - working mostly after hours (without pay).
The early Midgets were WL prefix registered (Oxford I guess) RX coming in once the factory moved to Abingdon.
Some cars though were still sold with WL prefix from Abingdon so I guess they had some leftovers.
EX 120 and most of the early C types have RX prefix registration plates.
Later on in 1932 the JB prefix took over - I think because the boundaries changed and Abingdon became part of Oxfordshire instead of Berkshire.
I doubt very much if we will ever discover the truth about the Shinio identity though - perhaps there is a little of shinio in every MMM car?
Regards David |
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Cathelijne
Netherlands
744 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2011 : 17:06:30
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Hi All,
From the 2009 Yearbook, page 7, 1st paragraph of the article titled "122mph from 750cc" by ROBIN Jackson:
"My first recollections of a competition M.G. prototype are of a car nicknamed 'Shinio', so-called because of the amount of spit-and-polish lavished upon its power unit by the mechanics at the M.G. works. It was an 850cc M-type Midget two-seater. The company wanted it to undergo an endurance test at Brooklands and asked me if I would do the driving. I collected the car from the factory and drove it down to the track. Instructions were to find out how it stood up to continuous flat-out driving around the Outer Circuit and I put in over 24 hours at full throttle."
It goes on for a little bit after this, but I'd suggest that whomever wants to read more, buys himself a copy  !
Cheers,
Cat
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Peter Green
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2011 : 19:58:35
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David,
I think that Abingdon remained in Berkshire until the boundary changes in the mid 1970's when it became part of Oxfordshire. RX and JB were both Berkshire issued numbers, WL was an Oxfordshire issued number.
Peter. |
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Oz34
United Kingdom
2538 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2011 : 20:14:16
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I agree with Peter, and RX continued surely to be used post war? The famous Le Mans Twin Cam is SRX 210, Barry Sidery-Smith's ex-works MGB is CRX 255C and I think another ex-works MGB is BRX something or other. There are probably more.
Dave |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2011 : 09:26:37
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Cat Peter Dave
The problem with commenting here in my lunch hour is that I often nate simakes!
Robin Jackson was employed to carry out the tests for MG on the Midget - leaving Jacko and others time to concentrate on the Mark III project (which wasnt going well).
The sages at the company were still of the opinion that the bigger car had more future than the Midget.
The tests by RR Jackson served to confirm Jacko's view that the small car had a better future and allowed Kimber to push forward with the Midget entry in the 12/12.
That said even Kimber wasnt convinced of the Midgets suitability until the car won the race.
RX as a 2 letter prefix seems to end in about 1932.
But I also seem to remember being told that there was something to do with the issue office changing which led to the change from RX to JB as well.
I wasnt sure of the boundary changes but looking at the high numbers by the time of the C types I guess they simply ran out and JB took over as the preferred prefix.
RX makes a return post war in the three letter prefix (as does JB).
Incidentally Brry Sidery Smiths ex LeMans car is DRX (slip of the key strokes not just my problem?).
I never said I was a font of knowlege!
Regards David |
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Oz34
United Kingdom
2538 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2011 : 17:35:02
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You are of course absolutely right David. I knew it was DRX but, as you say, as lipo f thek ey!
Dave |
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MaGic_GV
United Kingdom
868 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2011 : 12:03:53
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On the subject of polish, I have recently read that pilots of the DH Mosquito used to insist on a high polish to the fuselage, up to 8 mph being said to be gained - Get polishing, lads!
Graham |
Edited by - MaGic_GV on 12/09/2011 12:04:43 |
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Mike Allison
United Kingdom
196 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2011 : 12:07:22
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Hi all:
This topic asks a whole load of questions, few of which are answered!
Linfield theoretically "owned" the car in question, if it is the "Morris Publicity man" with him, this would have been Miles Thomas, one of the architects of Cecil Kimber's eventual "resignation". Thomas, by repute, did not like Kimber at all, probably because Kim had been very successful. Linfield was the editor of "Light Car and Cyclecar" magazine, so the car was probably assigned to Iliffe Press.
RX ran to 9999, a couple of F-types are certainly in the 9000's. And, yes, it was a Berkshire registration code, replaced by JB. Both these pairs of letters subsequently were associated with prefix letters, and were used pre and post war.
Abingdon "moved" to Oxfordshire in the 1970's, but in the nineties Oxford was split into (I think) three "authorities" and Berkshire into 4, giving us seven Civil Service bodies doing the "work" of previously two. "Counties" as I knew them no longer have any relevance, except for the cricket teams!
Shinio was the development M-type, which was always under the control of Reg Jackson: Robin J never worked at Abingdon. Reg himself told me that the car was in use until around 1931, when it had "virtually fallen apart", and that he broke it up. It certainly was the prototype for which the 12/12 and C-type engine work was initially done. The whole story is told in "Works MG". The car was one of the "first ten or so" M-types to be built according to Jacko.
I do not think it was ever registered, although it could have used RX 7368 for a time.
Regarding a list of interesting Registration Numbers, I have commenced doing this, and over the coming winter hope to make more progress. If anyone has anything to contribute to this, please contact me direct. Eventually I want to relate this list to the competition use of MMM cars.
Best wishes to all,
Mike
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