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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6144 Posts |
 Posted - 10/05/2012 : 18:12:13
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I'm not sure what the 1930s equivalent of an anorak is but I'm metaphorically putting mine on to pose a few questions about what should be in a J2 tool kit.
I'm starting to assemble a small set of period tools for my spiffy new Collingburn tool roll (to go with my even more spiffy 'new' J2  ) and while of course when actually working on the car in the garage we'd all opt to use modern equipment, a period set of tools would not only be nice to have but would (should?) be sufficient to handle minor roadside repairs. So I'm curious as to what certain items listed in the parts list and Instruction Manual actually were. Of course I know that what was actually supplied with any given car probably depended upon what was in stock on the day it was dispatched, and likewise the manufacturer of any particular item will have varied. But that aside:
- What is the special engine spanner?
- Is the Hardy Spicer grease gun the little brass Tecalemit plunger one ?
- What is the spanner referred to as 1/8" Whit. S.E.?
- Is the tappet spanner with feeler gauge a spanner for the rocker bushes?
- And is the jack a single lift one, and if so, any idea which model of Shelley (or other make) is of a similar vintage, i.e. early 30s?
Answers on a postcard....
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Edited by - Simon Johnston on 10/05/2012 20:11:47 |
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Bob Stringfield
United Kingdom
854 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2012 : 23:39:29
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Google either 'Shelley Jack' or www.mgaroadster.co.uk for detailed information on, yes, you've guessed it, Shelley Jacks.
MGs open-ended spanners are made by Shelley, as is the car's cheaper version of a 6" King Dick adjustable.
Bob. |
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bahnisch
Australia
674 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2012 : 23:53:24
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| Simon, Good luck with your tools, I have also put together sets of tools for my cars! From memory there is a list at the back of the owner's manual? I have found quite a few odd tools at what you call "car boot" sales (we call them "trash and treasure"). Often owners kept the tools in the shed which was later cleaned out. I consider that the tool kit, having been supplied with the car, just as much a part of the car as any other component. Apart from anything else, it is good fun on a Sunday morning to find some elusive tool or jack. There used to be a Melbourne (Australia) firm that made repro post-war tools for TC's and the like. Luckily I had most of mine which came with my low-mileage TC 50 years ago! |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6144 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 07:49:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob Stringfield
Google either 'Shelley Jack' or www.mgaroadster.co.uk for detailed information on, yes, you've guessed it, Shelley Jacks.
MGs open-ended spanners are made by Shelley, as is the car's cheaper version of a 6" King Dick adjustable.
Bob.
Bob, believe it or not, before posting my query I did use that nice Mr. Google - hence my question as to which Shelley jack it might be. And in doing that I also found the MGA site which, you've guessed it, tells me very little if anything about pre-war MG jacks.
EDIT: further digging on the MGA Roadster site does reveal more than I found there yesterday.  But still not clear what is correct for the small MMM cars - single or double lift?
And I'm aware of the Shelley spanners - that's why I didn't ask about them.
Barry, glad to find another metaphorical anorak! Indeed I have the list of tools from the Instruction Manual - hence my specific questions above. |
Edited by - Simon Johnston on 11/05/2012 11:13:17 |
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Matthew Magilton
Australia
179 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2012 : 08:42:46
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Hopefully I have attached an image of the poor photo used in the P and Magnette Instruction Manuals which may give some clues relevant to the J series. I too have been collecting MG tools from swap meets and garage sales. I am fortunate to have the original tool set and roll for my TF 1500.
Matthew.
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Matthew Magilton
Australia
179 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2012 : 08:49:35
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And here is a pic of the original M type tools posted by Sam Christie on this forum in 2010.
Matthew.
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Matthew Magilton
Australia
179 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2012 : 08:54:02
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Here is the tool kit for the Morris Minor about 1929. Note the spanner with the feeler guage attached. Sorry, I do not have the list of tools for this image.
Matthew.
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Matthew Magilton
Australia
179 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2012 : 08:59:01
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And a pic of my Tecalemite collection. I think number 7 is the same as in the P&N image.
Matthew.
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6144 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2012 : 12:17:11
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Matthew,
Many thanks for taking the trouble to post all these very interesting pictures. Sam Christie lives just round the corner from me so I'll follow up with him as well.
The P type list has clarified one of my questions - the 1/8" Whit. S.E. refers to a 'single ended' spanner. I wonder what it is required for?
And your Tecalemit collection is very impressive! But it doesn't seem to include the small grease gun for the P type (and presumably the same one was used for the J). Any thoughts on what it might be? The one with the Morris Minor tools looks to be an Enots 5D. In relation to the small brass Tecalemit guns, the one I have looks to be a 3, but I'd be interested in tracking down the number 4 as it's a bit smaller. Does it have any distinguishing marks or number?
The special engine spanner referred to in the J parts list is presumably the cylinder head spanner and I've been given one of those by a good friend.
It's also interesting that the screwdrivers are regular round handled ones as I'd understood that for the J at least it should be a Perfect Pattern one. Any thoughts?
And I guess the tappet spanner is probably for the rocker bushes. I have one of those but it's not original and doesn't have the feeler gauge.
Many thanks again.
Simon
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Edited by - Simon Johnston on 14/05/2012 12:42:26 |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6144 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2012 : 14:06:56
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| And by way of comparison between J and P type tools, would anyone have the part numbers for the P type tools as listed in the factory parts list that I could compare with the numbers listed for the J? |
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Matthew Magilton
Australia
179 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2012 : 14:17:39
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Gday Simon,
The gun collection photo was taken a couple of years ago and since then I have aquired a few more (thankfull one of my cheaper hobbies) including the Enots 5D you see in the attached pic. I have yet to find a grease gun like the smaller one in the P&N photo (which I think is possibly a Tecalemite PO7), although I may have its bigger brother.
The number 4 gun is the same as the number 3 except it is missing its end fitting and it has the raised lettering on the nose "Tecalemite London" whereas the 3 is stamped on the tail end "Tecalemite, Made in England"
Looks like the Perfect Pattern screwdriver was not issued with the early P's and N's although it is pictured in the TA and SA manuals. The price of these items in relation to the model may have had something to do with it.
If you happen to be visiting Sam I would be very interested to see close up images with any markings on the pump, gun, adjustable spanner and screwdriver if that is possible? There can't be many original M type kits about these days.
Matthew.
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6144 Posts |
Posted - 14/05/2012 : 14:48:43
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Thanks, again, Matthew. I thought it was probably the Enots 5D - I have one but without the cap.
Re the 'Tecalemit London' reference, I was told recently that this signifies much later production as Tecalemit moved to London from the West Country during the second world war and they used the 'Tecalemit London' inscription thereafter. Mine is 'Made in England'
I think the Perfect Pattern was only used for the M (or possibly D), J & F and a regular boxwood screwdriver thereafter. Barry Walker has an excellent page on his web site showing what he reckons are the correct tools - see http://www.barrywalker.com/cat.asp?cat=51
I've been in touch with Sam and I'll drop you a line separately about that.
Thanks again,
Simon
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Matthew Magilton
Australia
179 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2012 : 03:12:38
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I think the "Made in England" stamping on the Tecalemite was an export requirement after WWII (not absolutely certain) but it appears to be of more modern manufacture then the cast lettering of the Tecalemite London gun.
Working backwards through time with the Perfect Pattern screwdriver, they go something like; TF, TD, TC & Y, TB, TA &WA &SA &VA but not appearing in the N type Magnette and P type manual pictures and I can not (yet) find an earlier reference for their use in MG's. I am always cautious of the claims made by retailers whose tools are meant to be original for "all models".
Matthew. |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6144 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2012 : 06:36:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Magilton
I think the "Made in England" stamping on the Tecalemite was an export requirement after WWII (not absolutely certain) but it appears to be of more modern manufacture then the cast lettering of the Tecalemite London gun.
Working backwards through time with the Perfect Pattern screwdriver, they go something like; TF, TD, TC & Y, TB, TA &WA &SA &VA but not appearing in the N type Magnette and P type manual pictures and I can not (yet) find an earlier reference for their use in MG's. I am always cautious of the claims made by retailers whose tools are meant to be original for "all models".
Matthew.
Interesting point about the use of Made in England vs Tecalemit London. I will ask the guy who gave me the information about the change being mid WWII to see what he can add to this.
In relation to screwdrivers, in fairness to Barry Walker he makes a distinction between the early cars (M,J,F) having the Perfect Pattern ones, and the subsequent ones (P,L,N) having regular round handled ones. He doesn't make any reference at all I think to screwdrivers for T series.
Simon
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6144 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2012 : 07:30:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Magilton
I think the "Made in England" stamping on the Tecalemite was an export requirement after WWII (not absolutely certain) but it appears to be of more modern manufacture then the cast lettering of the Tecalemite London gun.
Indeed my information does seem to have been inaccurate as some further digging reveals an October 1931 advertisement for Tecalemit grease guns which specifically refers to their new Great West Road factory which opened six months previously and enabled them to increase production and thus reduce the price of their grease guns!
I definitely think I need to get out more
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