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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6176 Posts |
 Posted - 11/01/2013 : 02:16:40
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Interesting info, tommm. It would seem to confirm the view that the hoods were indeed intended to be left fitted to the long Lift the Dot fasteners round the rear of the body tub with the tonneau cover then fitting over the top of them. This would also account for the way the J hood frame folds, i.e. if it is folded tight against the wheel arch behind the seat, then it juts out in front of the seat under one's elbows and if it is folded neatly under one's elbows, it sticks up behind the seat leaving a gap between it and the wheel arch. But if the hood material had to be tucked under the frame before it was folded then there needs to be some space left for it - hence the gap?
Certainly the hood in the pictures seems to be attached to the frame as you have described. Although there also seem to be webbing straps which would have been unnecessary if it was secured as you have described. More photos needed! |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6176 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2013 : 06:15:49
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quote:
Originally posted by DickMorbey
Brian/all
I have sent a request to the owner suggeting that a Register rep visit him with a camera to gather detailed images for inclusion in our database of images project. Brian's pictures may very well give us most of what we need - Brian could you please get in touch off-line so we can compare notes?
Thanks
Dick
Dick, did you get my follow up emails about additional photos of the hood? |
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Matthew Magilton
Australia
179 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2013 : 06:56:55
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Thank you for the tool kit photos Graham.
Matthew. |
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mgtommm
USA
506 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2013 : 12:46:35
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Simon, Previously, my interpretation of fitting top/hood was to erect the frame with the webbing holding everything in place, then flop the hunka material over and snap in place. Nope. Sure made for easy stowage, though.
However, now armed with the two screws in the rear bow thing, I simply detach all the way round, kinda fold as much like a TC as I can, and scrunch the whole kit down behind the seat.
On P-Types the 1/2 tonneau is attached to the seat back, which really holds the bows behind the outer seatback flaps, but the 1/2 tonneau on J2's has those long sleeve thingies that (Lift-the-Dot)snap down low on the wheel well arch to keep the bows in place. Very tidy and effective.
If this green PA is still intact and the new owner is willing to provide it for a photo shoot, perhaps we could make a list of items for the photographer to detail to make it easier and ensure nuttin gets left out.
Frinstance, I'd like to see the gap between running boards and rear wings from top and side views (both sides to see if this one is consistent), same for rear wing tips, same for front wing tips. Lastly, I'd like detail shots of the sidescreens. The original black PB had the originals and the interior side was covered with scr@p material that was neatly sewn together - I'd say about 5 - 7 pieces total, each one. Exterior was one piece - what a waste!!
....Check out how nicely the front wing transistions into the running board on this car.
Enough rambling from rainy Ohio tommm |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6176 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2013 : 13:42:42
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Interesting, tommm. Do you ever just fold the hood/top down without detaching it from the Lift the Dot studs? That seems to me to be the only reason for having the long studs. Fold the hood without unfastening it and then simply pop the tonneau cover on over it. This would make it very quick to raise the hood which, after all, was the only means of protecting the car from the elements when parking it, for example. On the J2 the half tonneau was also tacked to the back of the seat but the flaps on each side (not sleeves) I'm convinced just hung there to protect one's elbows, even though there are examples of some cars having them secured by a Lift the Dot fastener. But from the photos of my car in its youth, and any factory photos I've been able to find, there's simply no evidence of any such fasteners. But if the hood is attached to the rear bow, and stowed without unfastening it from the body, then it would have to sit under the folded hood frame which would then be pushed up so that the front part of the frame didn't protrude from under the flaps. But as with all such things, the difference between theory and practice is often greater in practice than in theory!
More photos needed! |
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Robin Hamblett
United Kingdom
534 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2013 : 21:48:36
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Hi Simon. I'm in the USA on business until Sunday. Judging by my brief look on the forums and my mail in box, I have plenty of catching up to do. I'll come back on this ASAP.
Regards
Robin
J2 J3666 & J3 3764 |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6176 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2013 : 04:20:01
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| Great, Robin, many thanks. |
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Terry Andrews
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2013 : 13:28:40
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When I first bought my P type I lived a few miles from Barry Walker’s business in Chislehurst and passed by on my way home from work. At that time not too many people were interested in originality as it was all we could do is use the best of secondhand parts to keep the cars on the road. Things have now changed. As points for debate as we learn more I have made some comments in red below. I await the flack!!!!
1: There is a starting handle bracket on the front dumb-iron. I have seen different versions of this but I think this was an owner mod or after market to help prevent distortion of the dumb iron panel.
2: Brown distributor. Yes for P type.
3: Dynamo painted engine colour. Yes. Believe that the engines were painted after they were built and the copper pipes were also painted and the sump may also have had paint as I have seen a factory photo like this. However, this quickly came off the sump and pipes. If the dynamo was changed the standard LUCAS one would be black.
4: Starter motor silver or the like and I'm prepared to believe the cover was plated (I've seen bits of plating on my starter motor covers). Yes I agree with Tom on this but it would need a complete strip down of the unit to achieve this so standard LUCAS replacement black could be acceptable???
5: Inside of the firewall painted aluminum/silver. YES YES YES!!!!! Tom in the USA and Rod Brayshore in NZ have been discussing this for some time. The inside is silver along with the pedals and rod mechanism.
6: (Takes a deep breath, prepares for the flak attack) the gearbox bell-housing is black not engine colour. Yes this was my understanding from to cars I saw years ago. I have been criticized for this in the past. This has been discussed on the forum which concluded that the bell housing was engine colour but the end plate was black which still did not seem correct to me. The L CC was silver.
7: Carpet looks black - not the colour of the interior. Yes think this is correct for P type but not for all cars.
8: Engine is green - years ago Barry Walker's excellent catalogue had a section on colour and he thought then that this would not have happened. Think this should be a mud colour Red but could have had an engine change to green????
9: The Divers Helmet dashlamps would appear to have some sort of "lens" in the opening. Yes this does get affected by UV light think it was originally green.
10: Something that always takes my eye: the rear wings are different to one another. I think all the cars were like this - as if they used two slightly different bucks, or whatever, to shape the left and right wings. I think it's the same story with the front wings. Yes in restoration we strive for perfection that was not there when the cars were first built.
TA+1 = The carburetor linkages look correct to me for a P type.
TA+2 = The nickel pipes petrol reserve petrol pump to carbs correct. The 2 Nickel pipes to the reserve tap correct. They fit joints on the chassis to standard copper pipes.
TA+3 Front dampers do not look correct but cannot see details.
For anyone who is interested in gathering evidence before it disappears I think these are very useful photographs. I have more - there were about 50 posted when it was last up for sale. It's a real period piece and it would be lovely to see it back on the road: I just hope it doesn't get too messed about in the process.
Yes I would like them to add to my references of originality. Anything on P N or L’s
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George Eagle
United Kingdom
3244 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2013 : 17:43:13
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I note from the photos that the water hoses are secured by jubilee clips and not the "pig tail" type of clip.
I wonder if these are original! I expect like all MGs the works used whatever fittings were available and as such the jubilee clips may well be original!
I agree with some of Terry's observations - also recall silver painted fire walls and black bellhousings.
George
L2023 and NA0960. |
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Terry Andrews
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - 13/01/2013 : 11:25:54
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Hi George,
50% of the L CC had "pig tail clips" the others were standard Jubilee type but looks as if new clips were fitted when a hose was changed..... Terry A |
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DSW
Germany
95 Posts |
Posted - 13/01/2013 : 13:56:30
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Having been through the time like Terry when many things were unavailable I find these discussions fascinating.
Pitty that there were no digital cameras to photograph the many original parts around.
Without wanting to stir things up, the photo in the thread here is not good enough to convince my bad eyes that there is silver paint on the inside of the firewall, although there well may be - however the pedals are looking blackish so any painting must have been done before assembly?
The engine side is definitely looking like the hot dip galvanized surface likely used in those days. Why would the MG car company go to the effort of painting a non-rusting silvery surface anyway? My old firewall (long since junked and replaced with a home-made new one) showed no sign of paint to my recollection.
Maybe some got damaged/scratched, and the interior needed to look good?
I am intrigued by the HT connection to the spark plugs - looks like a simple straight line rubber covered connector as is still used on some newer cars today.
In the 70's I had the brass ends now being discussed in another thread, and replaced them with angled "Champion" bakelite clip-on connectors because of their frequent coming loose. No idea if either were original though, just practical!
David
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Keith Wallace
United Kingdom
367 Posts |
Posted - 13/01/2013 : 17:53:19
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David,
I agree with your observation regarding the painting of the rear of the fire wall. but the spark plug connections would seem to have been made with a type of wire spring clip the remains of some of them can be seen on the two spark plugs in spare pulg rack on the fire wall.
Keith
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3682 Posts |
Posted - 13/01/2013 : 18:11:37
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And one of the pictures seems to show the plug leads siamesed into a cable loom - which I believe is what the factory did at the time!
Dick
PA/PB 0743
Nr. Henley-on-Thames, Oxon, UK |
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Peter Scott
United Kingdom
1240 Posts |
Posted - 13/01/2013 : 19:14:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Keith Wallace
David,
I agree with your observation regarding the painting of the rear of the fire wall. but the spark plug connections would seem to have been made with a type of wire spring clip the remains of some of them can be seen on the two spark plugs in spare pulg rack on the fire wall.
Keith
Tim Hodgekiss part number 197 see:
http://www.vintagemotorspares.com/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/hodge?opendocument&part=2
Peter |
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Peter Green
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
Posted - 13/01/2013 : 20:39:59
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David,
I think you will find that the plug leads have brass spade ends and are fixed with spring clips, not a straight rubber covered connector. I have used this arrangement on one of my cars for many years with no problems. Below is a picture of the clips on the plugs on the spare plug holder.
Peter. |
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