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mg251
United Kingdom
198 Posts |
 Posted - 24/01/2013 : 13:07:04
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Hi all,
I know this isn't a MMM issue but a friend of mine in the U.S is restoring a '46 TC. He wants to restore it as closely to the original specs as possible. He is having trouble sourcing fawn wigan material which was the original material used by MG. I know a lot of knowledgable people use this forum so maybe someone can point him in the right direction?
Many thanks in advance.
Cheers Bob. |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6176 Posts |
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Robin Macmillan
United Kingdom
415 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2013 : 16:36:11
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Willing to be corrected over this but I do believe that "double-duck" material fades over the years to a fawn colour though it starts off black ..... possibly even moreso in the sunny USA
PB 0527 |
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LewPalmer
USA
3251 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2013 : 18:47:45
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Wigan is a cotton material coated with latex rubber. Its name is derived from Wigan, the name of a town in Greater Manchester, England.
The fabric is now virtually non-existant in fawn and was not a particularly long lasting material. I would recommend using Stayfast which is available in a similar tan color. Otherwise, there are a variety of such colored fabrics available from marine/boating supply stores. I am a particularly satisfied customer of Rochford Supply (http://www.rochfordsupply.com) here in the US.
However, Wigan in black can be found at a few places such as http://www.boyriven.co.uk/pages/fabricCharts/chart_hoodings.html
Lew Palmer
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Edited by - LewPalmer on 24/01/2013 18:53:03 |
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LewPalmer
USA
3251 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2013 : 19:02:09
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I forgot to mention that tonneau covers were only available in black until about 1948 when fawn was added. So for a 1946 car, black would have been used. The hood was fawn, however, with a few cars using black.
Lew Palmer
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6176 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2013 : 19:23:35
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Lew,
I have read somewhere that the half tonneau covers on TA, TB and perhaps early TCs were made of rexine, not canvas. Any thoughts? |
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LewPalmer
USA
3251 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2013 : 22:38:29
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Simon,
My references mention the hood and tonneau were made of twill or single duck on the pre-war cars.
Lew Palmer
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John M
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 25/01/2013 : 00:43:08
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Lew,
When you say tonneau covers were only available in black until 1946 are you talking about the TC or earlier models as well?
John M. |
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taterry
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 25/01/2013 : 02:13:14
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| A guy here in the USA on the Tabc list is planning to have some of this material made, I think it's the same stuff....having a double duck tonneau on my TA many years ago, it shrunk and discolored in a short time, I don't see why anyone would want to use it unless it's for a trailer queen....Terry |
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LewPalmer
USA
3251 Posts |
Posted - 25/01/2013 : 03:05:19
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Sorry, I misstated a few facts. Original TA, TB and TC hood and SIDESCREENS (not tonneau cover) were black twill or single duck until about 1948 when fawn became available. The tonneau cover was originally black Rexine and when TC fawn hood and sidescreens became available, the same fawn material was used on the tonneau cover.
Sorry for the confusion. I had tonneau covers on the brain.
Lew Palmer
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6176 Posts |
Posted - 25/01/2013 : 03:57:49
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Lew
When you refer to 'twill' what do you mean? My understanding is that twill is a weave pattern giving a diagonal pattern to the weave and not a fabric. Denim, for example, is a cotton twilll and tweed is often a woollen twill.
Is Stayfast similar in weight to the single duck or plain canvas that would have been used on the MMM cars?
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talbot
United Kingdom
718 Posts |
Posted - 25/01/2013 : 08:55:44
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I am having a new hood made at the moment and the trimmer is using a material called mohair, which I thought was used for expensive mens suits. It is black and looks like double duck cloth. The trimmer tells me it is standard fit for mercedes and BMW, is top quality and will not fade. I have seen mercedes with coloured hoods so fawn may be available.
Jan T |
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Blue M
United Kingdom
1474 Posts |
Posted - 25/01/2013 : 10:24:22
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Boyriven list a fawn duck hooding. I've just bought the black version to make a hood since mine (after 44 years!) is now rapidly falling apart. Duck does seem to shrink a bit, so I'm wondering if I should make it a bit bigger to allow for that?
It will fade to a charcoal colour after a while, but I like that.
Ian |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6176 Posts |
Posted - 25/01/2013 : 11:38:45
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Maybe this is a good place to try and clarify what the options are for hood material and how they compare with what was fitted originally? The original query about Wigan material has raised all sort of issues that are relevant to MMM cars as well as early T series.
As far as I have been able to determine, the original hood material on MMM cars was single layer untreated square weave canvas. Its effectiveness as a barrier to water was limited and relied on the material in the hood being really taught in order for the water to be encouraged to run off the surface, much like a tent. As an aside, it was for this reason, I am convinced, that the wooden blocks, sometimes found under the hood frame pivot, were fitted. I am inclined to the view that the hoods and frames arrived at the production line with the hood already cut and sewn and fixed to the rear frame bow. The hood was then fastened to the screen and the rear of the body and the hood frame erected to determine exactly where to drill the holes to secure the pivots to the wheel arches and keep the hood taught. And if the hood fabric wasn't tight enough, stick in a couple of wooden blocks to raise the frame up a bit and Bob's your uncle! The idea that a half inch block might have been fitted by a dealer to give more headroom is fanciful. I'm 5' 11" and I have a good 4" between the top of my head and the line where my hood will go once it's fitted. A half inch block isn't going to make any significant difference.
As for the tonneau cover, as we know, a full length cover wasn't provided with MMM cars and that may well have been because the canvas used for the hooding wouldn't be waterproof when lying more or less horizontally on the car. The half tonneau cover was really only a decorative cover for the folded hood and the space behind the seat. But it clearly wasn't intended to be a weatherproof cover. The hood and sidescreens were the only way of providing protection from the elements. Hence perhaps the fact that the early T series half tonneau was rexine - the same as the interior trim panels.
So what would be the available equivalent for the single layer canvas/duck hood. Clearly double duck will be much thicker, but how do the acrylic alternatives stack up? What is referred to as mohair hooding is in reality solution dyed acrylic fabric which process ensures not only its colour fastness but also its water resistent characteristics.
But there is a number of variations on this - Stayfast, Twillfast and Sonnenland, all made by Haartz Corp. being but three. Of these Twillfast would seem to be unsuitable as it is a twill fabric with a diagonal weave pattern rather than a square weave as original.Has anyone any experience of using Stayfast?
Or are there viable alternatives. For example Lew Palmer has mentioned marine fabrics and Sunbrella (http://www.sunbrella.com/showroom/#submit=complexSearch&screen=listing&fs=&app=001000&pattern=all&color=all&col=all&menu=csAccordionItem&limits=111111) make a wide range of fabrics that could potentially fit the bill. Has anyone any experience of these?
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Blue M
United Kingdom
1474 Posts |
Posted - 25/01/2013 : 13:16:20
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| Is it possible that the wooden blocks were fitted in order to be removed once the hood had shrunk? The picture of an M hood that Sam Christie posted on the M Hood thread shows it was quite flimsy stuff judging by the creases in it. Maybe it was 'shrunk to fit' like old Levi jeans! |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6176 Posts |
Posted - 25/01/2013 : 13:22:34
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| If that were the case, Ian, then one would expect all cars to have had them originally but it seems that this was not the case although my car did as it happens. But my Dad certainly didn't get them fitted to give him more headroom as he was only about 5' 8". |
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