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Cowley
United Kingdom
97 Posts |
 Posted - 18/03/2013 : 14:28:20
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Some of you may recall that in 2011 I acquired a lovely period photo of Elsie 'Bill' Wisdom sat in K3003 : JB1475 following the 1933 Mille Miglia, which had been personally signed by her, and you kindly assisted me with some thoughts about the streamlined boat tail that was fitted, and when the photo dates back to.
Well it's that time again gentleman, as I have recently acquired another original period MG racing photo and could do with some assistance identifying the car, driver, event, venue, date, result, etc.
I was informed that it was Doreen Evans in an MG K-Type Midget of some sorts, and that the venue was either Donington or Crystal Palace.
I thought it might be Doreen's famous MG RA-Type at first, although on further inspection the RAs appear to have a single central fuel filler on the upper tail, don't have leaf spring rear suspension, and they don't generally feature a streamlined 'blister' behind the driver's head. I guess it might not even be an MG, in which case it will be right back on eBay again!
The ® symbol was added by the eBay seller by the way - I have simply used his digital image for this request, and the original photo is totally clean and un-watermarked in this area.
Any help or assistance therefore would be very much appreciated. Many thanks in excited anticipation.
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Edited by - Cowley on 27/03/2013 14:24:53 |
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Nick Feakes
USA
3500 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2013 : 17:10:18
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David
It is definitely not an R-type as it has leaf springs at the back
Nick |
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Cowley
United Kingdom
97 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2013 : 17:41:33
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Thank you Nick, and there's me not even noticing that obvious non R-type feature! (blush)
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David |
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powerplus
United Kingdom
605 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2013 : 17:53:43
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Is it not the single seater J4 owned by the Beers?
Powerplus. |
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Cowley
United Kingdom
97 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2013 : 18:19:18
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Thanks for the tip off 'Powerplus', I'll pop off and try and find a photo of it.
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David |
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Wiessmann
Germany
91 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2013 : 18:55:37
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| Yes, Alan, J4007, probably I.H. Nickols, Crystal Palace, 25/6/38. |
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Cowley
United Kingdom
97 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2013 : 19:13:42
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Do you have any photos of the car / entry that you mentioned Wiessmann? Where on earth did you get such specific detail from?
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David |
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Cowley
United Kingdom
97 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2013 : 20:32:26
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Another suggestion from elsewhere is that it is in fact Donington Park, and shows the old left hand Redgate Corner with the Dunlop bridge in the distance near the current Redgate Lodge, as shown on this 1937/38 circuit map...
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David |
Edited by - Cowley on 18/03/2013 20:33:31 |
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Wiessmann
Germany
91 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2013 : 20:59:23
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| David, so far as I can see from period race programmes, Crystal Palace, 25/6/38, was the only event where J4007 had race No 2. The Dunlop bridge can be seen in a picture taken from the opposite side at the same event on page 204, The Light Car, July 1, 1938. Karl |
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Cowley
United Kingdom
97 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2013 : 21:11:15
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Thank you Karl.
I've just found a period circuit map of Crystal Palace, and if I'm looking at the correct part of the circuit - bearing in mind that it ran clockwise! - I reckon the only place it could be is on that 'infield' section to the top left of that Maze Hill Enclosure. Big Tree Bend could be the left hander that the car is shown on, then there is a slight right downhill kink which could be New Zealand Hill, prior to the New Zealand Bridge in the distance...
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David |
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Cowley
United Kingdom
97 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2013 : 21:21:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiessmann
David, so far as I can see from period race programmes, Crystal Palace, 25/6/38, was the only event where J4007 had race No 2. The Dunlop bridge can be seen in a picture taken from the opposite side at the same event on page 204, The Light Car, July 1, 1938. Karl
Many thanks for that detailed information Karl. Would you happen to have any photos of J4007, or would you mind scanning the photo on P.204 of that issue of The Light Car that you mentioned?
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David |
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Cowley
United Kingdom
97 Posts |
Posted - 19/03/2013 : 13:05:15
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This is the section of the Crystal Palace track - highlit in blue! - that I think we're looking at in the photo above.
The red arrow represents the view from the photographer, and the two yellow blocks represent the mystery car in the foreground, and the other car in the distance on the other side of the Dunlop sponsored New Zealand Bridge. Right in the distance you can also see that the track bends to the left, and this matches up to the left hand Stadium Dip corner at Crystal Palace...
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David |
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Cowley
United Kingdom
97 Posts |
Posted - 20/03/2013 : 13:04:54
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So to recap then, we now know that the photo is taken at Crystal Palace, with the car rounding Big Tree Bend on the way down New Zealand Hill towards Stadium Dip in the distance - CHECK!
However, we are still really none the wiser about what actual MG it is - if in fact it is actually an MG? - or who the driver is wrestling with the steering wheel, or in which event it is taking place.
What MG has twin fuel fillers, twin exhaust pipes on the nearside of the car, leaf spring rear suspension, a seemingly quite high driving position, complete with streamlined tail and 'blister' behind the driver's head. The shape of the nose seems typical MG of that era - the radiator surround seeming to be the typical straight top and side with rounded top corners. I gather twin exhaust pipes were a feature of the Q Type, whereas most K3s had a single pipe.
We've had suggestion of the Beers' J4 - J4007 probably driven by I.H. Nickols on 25 June 1938 - and elsewhere I have had suggestions of Bill Everitt's K3 during the 1938 Coronation Trophy, Stuart Wilton's K3 from the 1939 Stanley Cup Meeting, but nobody has come up with any photo evidence so that we can compare the features.
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David |
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Oz34
United Kingdom
2629 Posts |
Posted - 20/03/2013 : 14:13:31
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David, you say "if in fact it is actually an MG". The rear springs appear to be fitted in trunnions rather than being shackled which would certainly suggest MG.
happy hunting,
Dave |
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Cowley
United Kingdom
97 Posts |
Posted - 20/03/2013 : 14:32:20
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Well that's something I suppose Dave - I only bought it because I was told it was an MG! Many thanks.
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David |
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Peter Green
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
Posted - 20/03/2013 : 15:14:48
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David,
I can tell you that the car appears to be an MG and is not a K3, Q type or an R type and I am sure if Karl Wiessmann says it is J4007, it is.
Peter.
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