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Volumex
Switzerland
17 Posts |
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John James
United Kingdom
963 Posts |
 Posted - 07/03/2014 : 11:22:36
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MG 3717 is listed on the DVLA website as a 939cc Black MG. Date of first registration is 18/11/35. Can Jean-Marc confirm that the date of first registration is the same date as appears in his log book? (then we will know that there is not another car masquerading as MG 3717).
Assuming that Jean-Marc replies in the affirmative, quite why a car which is no longer in the UK still shows up on the DVLA website is not understood but I know that it happens with T-Types.
As for PA1902, quite why it would have carried the registration number MG 3717 is a mystery to me and I don't believe that this would ever have been officially sanctioned. |
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Volumex
Switzerland
17 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2014 : 11:49:32
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John,
Indeed, first registration of PB0465/MG3717 is 18/11/1935 as on its green logbook and its V5 : the car is still in the UK and assured in the UK. It keeps its UK MG3717 registration.
Jm |
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Peter Green
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2014 : 11:55:54
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John,
I know nothing about MG 3717 or PA 1902 but I have to say that it is not unknown for continental owners of Triple-M cars to have them registered in the UK as well as the country that they reside. I know of two cars that are on the continent and are registered in the country they reside but are also registered with the DVLA. Whether this is legal or not I do not know.
Peter. |
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Volumex
Switzerland
17 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2014 : 15:02:20
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Are we certain that one day PA1902 had carried the registration number MG 3717 ? Is this link not proceeding from the confusion of the register listing at some point, as Robin confirmed ? The register listing is not the holly Bible ! Or maybe it is in fact. It's why as such a number of different versions it has to be cautiously interpreted.
Peter,
I really don't know if the other continental triple-M cars who are registered in their own countries keep legally their UK registrations. About PB0465, I believe I can say it is legally UK registered.
Jm |
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John James
United Kingdom
963 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2014 : 17:12:10
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Hello Jean-Marc,
Thank you for the confirmation of the date of first registration of PB0465/MG 3717.
In answer to your question, I don't believe that PA1902 ever carried the registration number MG 3717. I suspect that the confusion has been caused by a clerical error in the past. |
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Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1487 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2014 : 11:25:36
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Over the years, Mike Hawke compiled lists of chassis and registration numbers which he had dredged up from a wide variety of sources, and on this list he shows MG3717 as applying to both PA1902 and PB0465 - without any clarifying note as to which thought was the correct one. However Mike Dalby has a list of the "MG" numbers issued by University Motors and this shows that MG3717 was given to PA 1902.
Colin B. |
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PeterL
United Kingdom
1723 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2014 : 13:29:09
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Hello Chaps
Can we ask John Inness to have a shuftie at the chassis files? We would then know which chassis had which registration number. Old registers might then give a clue as to when any number switching took place and if and when the two cars might have been in the same ownership.
Cheers
P |
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Volumex
Switzerland
17 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2014 : 13:49:14
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Thank you Colin for this precious information. So it must be assumed that the list issued by University Motors is the reliable one. PB0465 is linked to MG3717 on the green continuation logbook of PB0465 with this mention : "£5-00 paid for retention of Index Mark & Number 13/2/67". It is the only information I own. I don't know how far this document is reliable and most importantly I don't know what happens with PB0465 before february 67.
Jm |
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3677 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2014 : 14:23:37
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Peter
I will be at Kimber House tomorrow and will take a look at the files (if we can get acces to them.
Dick Morbey
PA/PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK |
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John James
United Kingdom
963 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2014 : 16:21:51
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In answer to Colin, I have a copy of 'J-TYPE INDEX 1999" which was given to me by Mike Hawke. In the back of this book (408 pages) is a Registration Number Index. I believe that Mike would have compiled this from the chassis files. There is a series of 'TJ' numbers issued for the following chassis numbers:
PA1860 (TJ 9042), PA1868 (TJ 9043), PA1902 (TJ 9045), PA1903 (TJ 9046), PA1904 TJ 9047), PA1905 (TJ 9048) PA1906 (TJ 9049) and PA1688 (TJ 9050).
From the above it is pretty clear that PA1902 was first registered as TJ 9045.
In answer to Dick, the archive room will be locked. One of the first actions I took when I started the Archive with Peter Neal was to insist on the room being locked when not in use. The reason for this is that every Tom, Dick and Harry could (and did) wander in and 'borrow' things, some of which have never been returned. If you want access tomorrow you could phone Peter Neal later this afternoon/evening (he lives in Abingdon) to see if he would come round tomorrow and open the room for you. I have his telephone number if you care to e-mail me off-line.
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tonym
United Kingdom
653 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2014 : 16:49:29
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In the 1982 register PB0465 is listed with MG 3717.
PA 1902 is not listed at all
Just to add a frisson of controversy.
PA 1902. in the 2011 Register has MMM number 489
In the 1982 register this number was allocated to PB 0465
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3677 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2014 : 17:17:04
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Reminds me of what Harold Wilson is said to have stated:
"There are lies, damned lies and statistics!" - but he might have been quoting Disraeli ...
Dick Morbey
PA/PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK |
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Bob Grunau
Canada
290 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2014 : 18:10:47
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I have copies of the original Lancashire Police records of police cars purchased. Listed is PA1902, engine number 2228AP, registration number TJ9045, make MG Midget, purchased 16.3.35. This is shown as Seating "two " , colour black and blue. Cost 224.12 pounds less 10%. So I'm sure the advertised PA does not have the original engine.
Yes Lancashire police did use four seaters, NA0686 is a four seater, TJ9036. NA is patiently waiting for completion of an engine rebuild.
Bob, Canada
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PeterL
United Kingdom
1723 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2014 : 20:40:12
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The chassis file should say whether it was a 2 seater or 4.
Lets hope Dick can take a look tomorrow.
Cheers
P |
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