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mgtommm
USA
505 Posts |
 Posted - 24/07/2013 : 18:06:49
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Is this car still alive? Bearly?
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Bob Stringfield
United Kingdom
854 Posts |
Posted - 24/07/2013 : 18:40:42
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| A dancing daughter ? |
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LewPalmer
USA
3242 Posts |
Posted - 24/07/2013 : 18:51:20
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It's on the Register as car PB0532 register number 595, but owner listed as "not known".
Lew Palmer
PA1169, PB0560 |
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Oz34
United Kingdom
2536 Posts |
Posted - 24/07/2013 : 20:03:46
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Quite bizarre. The car was Betty Haigh's though, wasn't it?
Dave |
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LewPalmer
USA
3242 Posts |
Posted - 24/07/2013 : 20:19:20
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Yes, her rally car in 1937-38.
Lew Palmer
PA1169, PB0560 |
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mgtommm
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 24/07/2013 : 21:22:33
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| Bet it had a real growl. Sorry, there are so many one liners I can bearly stand it. tommm |
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John Brinkmann
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - 24/07/2013 : 21:29:16
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This is Betty Haig's Paris-San Raphael Rally winning "PB," taken after the 1938 event. A more famous version of the photo was taken for publicity purposes, a variation of which appears in an old issue of Safety Fast. Note the trophies on the windscreen. Seeing a photographer at the car, the Gypsy woman approached with her dancing bear, so Betty took this snapshot.
Betty thought the photo to be an amusing variation of the more famous photo and planned to use it in her memoirs, which were never completed, to my knowledge. It would interest me to know where this photo came from. Along with others, I have been trying to locate Betty's albums as I made a tape recording of her commentary she thumbed through them.
In the Safety Fast photo below, Betty is holding Pam Moy's Pekingese, "Chi."
Last I heard, the car still exists.
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MaGic_GV
United Kingdom
868 Posts |
Posted - 24/07/2013 : 21:42:44
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I took a photo of the car, with Betty, some time in the '70s, so it must be still around, but I have no idea where...
She and a lady friend entered a local traction engine rally 'car and traditional dress' competition, wearing white overalls, linen helmet etc. - probably the most original combo there, but no prizes!
Graham
"I'd rather be happy than right anyday" Slartybartfast, Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy |
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John Brinkmann
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - 24/07/2013 : 23:08:17
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Betty Sold PB0532 at the beginning of WWII. Later, her friend Barbara Marshall bought it back, had it restored and gifted it to Betty, who kept it until she died. A photo of Betty and Barbara in the PB during the rally appears elsewhere on the Forum. According to a very foggy memory. PB0532 might now be in a museum. In Scotland? Robin will know. |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6119 Posts |
Posted - 25/07/2013 : 03:57:13
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| In my student days in London I recall going one Saturday morning with a mate to see a P type that was for sale in Bath which had apparently been owned by Betty Haig. Perhaps this was when it was acquired by Barbara Marshall? As an aside later that same day - 5 July 1969 - I met up with some uni friends for the Stones concert in Hyde Park and then on to the Albert Hall that evening to see Chuck Berry and The Who. Not a bad day at all! |
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Robin Hamblett
United Kingdom
534 Posts |
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John Brinkmann
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - 25/07/2013 : 13:00:44
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According to Betty's Safety Fast article she entered two PBs in the Paris-San Raphael Rally: PB0532 in 1938, which was the only British car to win the rally prewar; and another blown PB in 1939—JB4611, with which she finished second according to Betty (third according to Mc Comb, who states that the blown car was actually the ex-Summerfield PA). It is implied that PB0532 was sold in 1938. Betty owned again it when I met her in 1976.
Betty was also the only person to win an Olympic motoring event—a rally held at the 1936 Berlin Olympics—in a Singer.
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John Brinkmann
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - 25/07/2013 : 21:14:44
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PB0532 with Betty Haig and Barbara Marshall in the Paris-San Raphael Rally, 1938, the year Betty won.
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Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1487 Posts |
Posted - 26/07/2013 : 11:17:53
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John,
Betty Haig owned both the PB XG 3729 (with which she won the 1938 Paris-St.Raphael Rally outright) and the blown PA JB 4611. Her intention was to enter the blown PA in the 1939 event, but the Rslly never took place (possibly due to the worsening political situation on the Continent at the time.) JB 4611 was first used by J H Summerfield (there is a suspiciion that it was loaned to him by Abingdon) who ran it in the December 1934 London - Gloucester Trial, and he was still trialling it in February 1936 (the Colmore). By the middle of 1937 JB 4611 was being used by F G (Bobby) Minter and his sister Peta who trialled it in several Surrey Trials and the Lands End in 1937.
There is quite a lot about Betty Haig (and the Paris - St.Raphael Rallies in the "Speedqueens" website although they got into a bit of a muddle over the dates in which Betty entered, and furthermore another website was set up in the U.S. regarding Peta Minter's life (she went over to live in the US in the 50s) which includes a number of photographs of Bobby driving JB 4611 in U.K. trials. JB 4611 (chassis number PA 1323) still exists and lives in Germany with Rolf Ditter.
Colin B. |
Edited by - Colin Butchers on 26/07/2013 11:20:49 |
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John Brinkmann
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - 26/07/2013 : 14:04:40
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Colin:
Thank you for details of the early history of JB 4611, of which I know very little (most of that parroting magazine articles) but I am fairly certain the Paris-San Raphael Rally was indeed held in 1939. In her Safety Fast article Betty describes the car's preparation in detail and notes its performance on each leg of the rally. She claims the car had a Q Type preselector gearbox and a Marshall Blower delivering 10 pounds boost. She was constantly under the blower cowl because of problems with the carburetor icing up during the February rally, some of which was at elevation.
Betty's friends Pam Moy and Enid Riddell entered the only two BMW 328s participating that year. Betty later bought Enid's car and owned it until she passed away. In his scathing 1988 postmortem of Betty, “Don't be vague...” F. Wilson McComb writes that Betty first considered a factory-supported SS 100 for the 1939 rally, but found its handling in the wet to be “unpredictable,” so instead she used JB4611.
I have never seen a photo of Betty with JB 4611. Her J2, ALL 315, sat forlorn at a San Fernando Valley sports car dealership for years until discovered by an enterprising California buyer who flipped it back to the UK, along with a taped interview I made with Betty. I used to visit the J2 as the only nearby example of how the boxes of parts in my garage were supposed to go back together—never suspecting that it had belonged to Betty.
John |
Edited by - John Brinkmann on 26/07/2013 14:15:55 |
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Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1487 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2013 : 11:22:25
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John, You are absolutely correct about the Paris-St.Raphael Rally being held in February 1939 because I have just watched a short Pathe film of the event, which can be seen by searching on "Womens Motor Rally in 1939." I took my misinformation from the Speedqueens website, and I think I read more into their comment than was intended. They said "In 1938 she drove in the Paris-St.Raphael again for the last time before the war ....."
I gather from Mike Allison that when she owned JB 4611, the car was looked after from time to time by "Jacko" from the Works, and she is quoted as saying that it went like the wind but was not very reliable !
My own personal claim to fame, is that on one occasion I drove her 1939 TB (MG6644) at Brighton Speed Trials, which was great fun, and on another occasion, when I was marshalling at Brands Hatch, I made some silly, throwaway remark to her, and she rebuked me very firmly. I don't think she thought much of men anyway, but on that occasion, I came at the bottom of her list of all time favourite males !
The Peta Minter stuff was on the web under "Peta Snyder - US Aviator), Snyder being her married name. I see that she passed away recently (at the age of 90) and the images which I saw previously seem to have been pulled.
Colin B. |
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PB0532
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