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Chris Bucknell
Australia
107 Posts |
 Posted - 28/10/2011 : 22:30:35
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David,
Just to tease you a bit more. I did not say V8 R-Type it is actually ran a straight 8 as far as I know.
Chris |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 31/10/2011 : 09:19:29
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Chris
Blimey the four cylinder engine was a squeeze!
When I looked at fitting a 6 into a R type chassis as part of my studies on chassis design in the 80's, I came to the conclusion it was a non starter because the whole geometry was WRONG!
I worked out that you needed the lengthen the chassis legs forward of the central crossover - this in turn altered the suspension pickups and the springing went to pot.
Because the chassis was now longer then the roll characteristics were all wrong (worse even than a standard RA) and the twist in the chassis was unacceptable.
I think it likely that any fabled 6 cylinder R (or S) type would have had a completly different chassis - certainly if you look at the RB drawings there is scope to improve the various "issues" with an RA but it is obvious that the RA was early genus.
I take it that the straight 8 was a home brew?
The drive must have been BRAVE!
Regards David |
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Enfield Allday
United Kingdom
47 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 10:43:02
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| The French R-type was entered in three French events in 1946 fitted with a reduced cc 1500 straight 8 1928 Salmson engine using a Bugatti supercharger. Photograph(s?) exist. |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 13:35:11
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I had heard of that car but always considered it a myth.
All goes to show that you should never say never - I take it that the excercise was a disaster?
Did the car actually run?
I had heard that although it was built - it never ran long enough to really be considered viable?
The straight 8 Salmson engine was never particularly strong and a blower would have made its frailty all the more extreme I would have thought.
Regards David |
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McEvoy
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 18:20:10
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David, Chris and all. There is a picture of the 8 cylinder engined R Type in Bill Boddy's book "The History of Motor Racing" RA 0254 is shown in the middle of the front rank leaving the line in the Coupe Robert Benoist for 1500cc cars held in the Bois de Boulogne on the 9th. September 1945.
The brave conductor being Bonnard.
This was the car originally suplied to Ecurie Jacques Menier that Maillard-Brune drove and now resides with Karl-J Wiessmann
Bob |
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Enfield Allday
United Kingdom
47 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 22:43:28
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| Further to my post re French R,it was in the 45 race & TWO 1946 events, the cc was enlarged from 1100 to 1500,DNF twice& DNS (failed in practice) |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2011 : 08:44:26
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The only thing is guys that the 8 cylinder Salmson engine was a 1500 cc capacity already.
I always thought that the 1100 cc Salmson engine was a 4 cylinder - so I dont think the 8 would have needed enlarged capacity.
Maillard-Brune was involved in the "rescue" of the car industry in the imeadiate post war in some capacity and the 1100 Salmson engine would have given him more start money than the original MG 750.
Over-declaring the engine size was a common way of getting an 1100 in the 1500 Voiturette class and claiming another few quid start money and this was common practice with K3 owners (leading to the mistaken idea of 1500 engines being fitted pre-war), John Webb told my father and I that it was the difference between eating and eating well!
The idea of the 8 cylinder engine into the R chassis was probably right but it must have handled like an absolute PIG!
It is probably just as well that it seldom started and never finished - Tee hee!
When I saw the Menier car shortly before Karl bought it - the car was in pretty good order and showed no signs of the 8 cylinder engine (it didnt have an engine at all) and Dad told me that the car had been fitted with a non standard engine but that it hadnt been a success.
This prompted my dissitation piece for my HNC, although we were looking at fitting the 6 cylinder MG unit.
The Salmson engine is a curious starting point - they made VERY few of them and parts must have been very scarce.
The engine was designed for a 15 hp saloon car of which only a handfull were ever built and the design as far as I can see was simply 2x1100cc 4 cylinder engines cast end to end, with a special crank and sleeved bores.
The Salmson 4 cylinder engine remained in production after the war (they even tried a formula 2 car with a modified Citroen chassis) but was famous for its frailty (it was a nearly 20 year old design by 1930) and even now Salmsons tend to be fitted with donor engines because of this.
Personally if I had been in Maillard-Brunes position I think I would have plumped for the Amilcar C6 engine instead - but then again (French Shrug) if youve got it flaunt it!
Nice story though - shame it didnt work.
Regards David |
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Wiessmann
Germany
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2011 : 06:28:05
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Gentlemen,
For the history of RA0254 and a photo of the car with the Salmson "huit pattes", please read the article in the 1992 MMM Yearbook, p.5-11. For technical details on the engine (only two or three built), please read Chris Draper: The Salmson Story, p.105-118. The post war modification on the R-type was carried out by Eugène Martin with no correlation to Maillard Brune.
Regards Karl |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2011 : 08:41:16
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| Thanks for that Karl and it certainly explains the Maillard-Brune connection (there isnt one) with the choice of engine. |
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