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Bob Stringfield
United Kingdom
854 Posts |
 Posted - 02/12/2012 : 10:20:50
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Prompted by Dolts - herewith a thread.
This seems to be a problem for most clubs and societies; it is not restricted to old vehicle enthusiasts.
Amongst my family, two non-car specific points have surfaced. The lack of affordable housing with anywhere to keep a pre-war car.
The lack of Monday - Friday only jobs, with regular hours, in their metier, the sort that I suspect many present MMM owners have retired from, hence the difficulty of maintaining and using any old vehicle.
Two other, minor, points. The local to me VSCC pub meeting has almost faded away; the local Online Austin Seven Club goes from strength, as does the - national - Veteran-Cycle Club.
Bob. |
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davies
United Kingdom
699 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 11:07:56
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Is this young enough to get them interested?
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Bob Stringfield
United Kingdom
854 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 11:37:49
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Yes, no problem. My grandson - pictured - is very keen, but how to translate that into long-term ownership is the problem. I shall have gone to the garage in the sky by then.
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Onno
Netherlands
1045 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 13:48:29
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I am missing one point.
The lack of affordable projects/cars!
Not really young any more (still very young compared to the average MMM owner)but I had to bend over backwards to be able to buy a project D.
Let alone being able to buy a running example of a MMM car.
So all of the spare chassis and projects you old MMM enthusiasts have hiding in those barns should not be kept with the idea of "I'll get around to that some day"
They should be made available so younger MMM enthusiasts can find and afford a MMM.
Other than that I would like to advise all MMM owners to let people drive their cars!!!!
I have been so lucky that MMM owners have been giving me the chance to drive their cars and that is the only way to get someone from mildly interested to wildly enthusiastic.
So there are enough young midget or B owners around, show them the car explane it and let them have a go.
9 out of 10 might not be able to afford, dare of like it but the others will be very thankful.
Onno "D" Könemann |
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AFM781
United Kingdom
194 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 18:18:21
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There are a number of reasons why the young are no longer interested in "proper" motors.
In 1960 when I got my PVT Alvis, cost £30, I worked in a research laboratories. Here after hours I, along with colleagues, was able to use many of the machining facilities - provided one cleared up afterwards and did not damage equipment no one minded. I cannot see this being allowed today.
Most of my fiends all worked in engineering establishments, most of these no longer exist. Gone are many workshops large and small.
Many garages had mechanics who understood vintage cars and would offer help or advice, Rob Walkers mechanics in Dorking would always offer help and advice if approached in the right way. Especially at MoT time.
Here in the Marches the VSCC meets are well supported, but most of those attending are also Veteran-Cycle Club members. However there are complaints within the V-CC that most people are riding 1950s lightweights rather than the 1890s bicycles that members were regularly using on ride in the 1950s.
Times move on!
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Robin Macmillan
United Kingdom
415 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 19:57:05
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Well here is my contribution ...... modern cars, say post 1990 are so reliable until they fail and so unrepairable when they do (ECU, Motherboard, CPU, ABS, catalyst all come to mind) that those born in the 1970's and thus of driving age in the 1990's and after have essentially no understanding of motor vehicle maintenance. Indeed when did you last go to a Radio, TV, Washing machine, Microwave or Computer repair shop. Most commonly we dispose and replace. This is as true of cars as it is of toasters. MMM Cars require some understanding of the internal combustion engine and the simplest of mechanics, levers, friction, worms and cams. This is now becoming a lost art and like furniture making, joinery, basket weaving and tapestry will decline until it is a heritage opportunity. Most of our vehicles will become museum items with a smaller number happily still on the road and, I suspect in the hands of families or the wealthy. Rather like fine art.
PB 0527 |
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talbot
United Kingdom
718 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 15:03:48
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A MG F for £695, a MG TF for £895 and a Mazda MX5 for £999 - all with MOTs and advertised on Autotrader right now. What's a young enthusiast, without too much money and no nostalgic memories going to buy? Worrying.
Jan T |
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Onno
Netherlands
1045 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 17:22:11
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Jan
Why is that worrying?
It looks like the first step to MG ownership to me.
For a young guy (or girl) that needs a day to day transport but not a boring euro box it seems like an interesting choice.
Once the MG bug has bitten they might be tempted to buy a MMM when they are a bit older and have the budget for one!
Onno "D" Könemann |
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JMH
United Kingdom
911 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 17:48:27
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Ono is right. If you're want to get into low-level motosport, that's what you'd buy. For my generation it was Mini Coopers, Midgets & Escort Mexicos. Tatty runners were around £200, when a tatty J2 could be had (if you searched hard) for about £3,500 but still needing a lot of work.
Today you get into MMMs through hand me downs, a large bag of gold, a severe bout of nostalgia, or a combination of all three. An MMM is unlikely to be the first choice of classic for the younger generation, people tend to get nostalgic about things from their youth, then go & get one when the mortgage is paid off/kids left home etc. Just look at the prices of Coopers/Mexicos now & the profile of their owners.
However, if they actually see an MMM being used the younger generation may aspire to ownership when they have the means. So, perhaps we all need to get out & about in our cars a bit more actually doing "stuff", even if it's low key.
All of us with cars that are running should make a resolution to enter at least one MGCC Gymkhana/Driving Test/Autotest or Trial next year!
JH
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Gideon
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 18:23:33
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This thread interests me greatly, for whilst I may no longer be a Spring chicken, I am on the 'younger' side of the membership list. I also count many friends of my age group who are equally enthusiastic about cars, car collecting, classic cars and motorsport, yet none of them have any exposure and therefore no interest in the vehicles that we all (on this site) share a passion for. I would like to throw out a suggestion therefore: I believe that this club does a great job of sharing user and member experience, expertise and opinions amongst the initiated .... ie the existing membership. Perhaps the club needs a role dedicated to promoting our interest to the non pre-War MG community? Such a role would involve mapping members and their vehicles and trying to assist with representation at local events.... eg University and school events (especially if involving automotive business, engineering, mechanics, or even art). There should be a pre -War MG presence at as many (non single marque) car shows as possible (wherever in the world). We can't criticize the lack of interest in MMM vehicles, if we....the current proprietors do nothing to promote them other than to celebrate them with fellow MMM enthusiasts. Perhaps there could even be a small membership fee to the MMM, the proceeds of which could go to an advertising campaign. .... Just a thought.
Gideon |
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JohnE
United Kingdom
373 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 19:38:12
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A good start in the UK would be for the Club to encourage insurers to cover younger drivers. My otherwise excellent insurance is OK for the over 30's, but it is the 18-25's who might catch the bug, I think.
Maybe this insurance could be paid for by the week, as many insurers now do here for youngsters and mainstream cars.
This isn't a new problem of course. The possibility of insuring a Midget, let alone a B in London was next to impossible for a 17 year old in the 60's, but back then a 17 year old could afford MMM insurance as I seem to remember.
JohnE |
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leafrancis14
United Kingdom
323 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 19:47:55
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I don't think we should worry too much. Some of the young lads and lasses who are tinkering with more modern cars will eventually discover and develop interests in the older variety.
But if we really wanted to help, we should cold shoulder the "investment" types and maybe think about selling a car on to the right person, rather than just to the highest bidder.
Barny (aged 45 1/2)
Barny Creaser
(Wellingborough) |
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JMH
United Kingdom
911 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 20:50:28
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John,
Insurance was ever thus. I could not get insurance on a Midget as a 17 year old learner in 1981 (or even when I passed my test for anything less than a King's ransom). However for nothing more than an "admin fee" L-plates were slapped on the J2. I didn't think that much of it at the time, but with hindsight, it was about the same time as Dad started to go grey......
I guess that statistically there weren't that many 17 year olds going around parking MMM cars in ditches in 1981, but lots doing it in Midgets & Minis!
JH |
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Richard Hardy
United Kingdom
2159 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 21:31:09
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Another problem to still overcome is the way which new members young and old are treated by elements of the trade. It keeps being brought up but it continues to go on.
A couple of years ago I came across a young M type enthusiast who was still at school, restoring an M type on a limited budget. He was sadly reeled in by a well known used MMM parts supplier and unsuspectingly purchased an M type sump which it later transpired was carefully gobbed with filler and painted over with silver paint. He was charged a fair price for the privilege. Not a good start for any young enthusiast but all too common
The youngest members are the ones who need more help than any other age group and we should feel privileged when they wish to share our interest. I came onto the scene as a young enthusiast from the age of 16 with my own Ford engined J2 scr@p yard wreck bought with my hard earned pocket money and a part un-repaid loan from my father. Fellow enthusiasts were good to me and I could not have achieved my ultimate goal to one day drive my very own vintage MG if it were not for their support. Before that, I tried to buy a local D type wreck at the age of 15 and the vendor did not take me seriously enough, possibly because I knocked on his door holding my bicycle! It went to a telephone engineer instead who I ended up helping as he had no idea how to finish the car.
I was potentially fortunate as my father offered to buy me my own vintage car to restore if I passed 5 0 levels or more. The sad thing was, I could then not sleep with excitement over this anticipated reward to the extent that it pre-occupied my mind day and night to the point that I failed every exam going!!!! I turned it around within a year but the deal was off the table by then!
I think everyone needs to encourage newcomers as the odds for expanding the MMM membership does look bleak
I agree with John, insurance is a major issue. My two children are now 15 and 13. They have the benefit of an J and an F, they both drive the J4 rep on private land but the day I will be able to get insurance for them seems an awful long way off and I don't just mean when they each turn 17. James is still looking for his own chassis
Regards
Rich
Vintage MG Parts |
Edited by - Richard Hardy on 03/12/2012 23:22:20 |
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JMH
United Kingdom
911 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 21:49:50
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Enjoy the next six years Rich - my insurer has said "I'll give you a quote when she's 21" (or words to that effect). I have now got less than a year to go before I start to go grey!
I only have 847cc's of "snarlin steel" to insure though, anything with a blower might be a bit more problematical if modern cars are anything to go by.
JH |
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LewPalmer
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2012 : 03:33:03
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Luckily, I had the forsight to indoctrinate my son many years ago into MGs. He took up electrical engineering in the medical devices industry, but has his own MGB. I have promised to let him start learning to drive the PB Airline. He's interested, but seems to have precious little time. However, the seed was planted young...
Lew Palmer
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